Hot Waxing Approach

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by Tom K., Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Tom K.

    Tom K. HRPufnStf Skier

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    This just in (for me, anyway):

    My New Moon xc catalog for this season notes that the old approach to hot waxing using many passes at low temperatures is being replaced with using a much hotter iron and waxing quickly.

    I've always wondered about how deeply heat penetrates the ski while using the old approach, but kind of blindly accepted it.

    What say the forum experts?
     
  2. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    140 degrees here...........up from @120 in the past.......quick light full coverage, drip wax mixed w/ a few drops of Zardoz Notwax on the ski...........wax away, scrape...... and then the RotoBrush RULES! Just did 8 pair today. Wonder how I ever did this w/o one .... also can't do w/o the plexi scraper sharpener.....
     
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  3. epic

    epic Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    I go with the temperature recommended for the wax. Move the iron fast enough that the wet tail behind the iron is about as long as the iron is.
     
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  4. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Should be pretty easy to get data for - point an IR thermometer at the topsheets and track the temperature rise for either method.

    One problem with attempting to answer your question without data is that we have no idea how much latent heat your specific wax will store; obviously waxes with higher latent heat will be more resistant to overtemp irons.
     
  5. cbk

    cbk AKA Carl ... Ski with great élan! Skier

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    Roger that! I got the one from Tognar Toolworks!!!

    And are your wax temps F or C??? It sounds awfully low for Fahrenheit ?!?! I usually run about 250F for my waxing iron (checked with a Coverite thermometer), wax is Hertel Hot Sauce for fun skis and FC739 for race planks...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016


  6. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    140 C or 284 F is what my wax calls for. Nothing special, Toko All in One covers -22f to 32f snow temps......Not sure how the Zardoz Notwax affects the temps but seems to glide much better in all temps vs no Zardoz...... Tognar Rocks w/ nice DIY database. All kinds of tips, tricks, gear and travel advice ( ie: duct tape on inside of fleece mask to avoid frozen face - in the Misc Tips section ). They are also great for phone advice too! :beercheer:
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
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  7. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    IMO it's actually a pretty good application range stretcher, esp. downwards. Have you tried the Felix process yet?
     
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  8. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I have taken the express route. Heat wax bar on the iron then while hot, rub onto base. Then iron slowly with no pressure, no rotation of the iron, lightly with temps that the wax look clear for abotu 4-6" behind the iron. With this method, there is very little excess wax on the ski, so there is no need to scrape. I will take a blue shop towel under the iron then go from tip to tail which will absorb most of the wax then I wil rotobrush once cool. No scraping, very little waste or mess.
     
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  9. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    I've tried it, and this The Purple Hayes process, which is their latest technique....... a bit of a variation on the Felix process; http://www.zardoznotwax.com/what-is-notwax/waxing-techniques.php
    Too much work for too little "recreational" gain. If I were racing, yes........ but since I'm a total Poser, Rec Hack.... I keep it simple!
     
  10. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    I'm trying this today as I have one more set to wax. Thanks!
     
  11. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    I am also a wax miser. As for temp. start with recommended temp but can go hotter as long as it isn't smoking. Smoking wax indicates temps that could be burning your bases. Back it down a notch if the wax is smoking.
     
  12. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    You Da Man!!!!! Works like a charm.......Love it!!!!! Anyone want a scraper sharpener and scrapers??? Cheap!
     
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  13. KevinF

    KevinF Gathermeister-Stowe Team Gathermeister

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    I've always been using the crayon method (i.e., heat the wax on the iron's base and scrub). I set the wax iron to the temp marked on the box. I've measured the iron's actual temperature at various settings; seems to match the dial.

    I probably crayon more wax onto the base then needed, but I've always been nervous about burning / torching / ruining my bases. A few passes with a scraper and the brushes and it seems to be good though for two or three days of good glide. My usual test is making it from the bottom of National back to the quad without having to skate. It's easily 200+ yards and I think slightly uphill. Fresh wax and I can make it.
     
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  14. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Use the towel between the iron and the base and it absorbs the wax..no need to scrape..and no wax shavings to clean up.
     
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  15. Primoz

    Primoz Out on the slopes Skier

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    This is actually not express route :) It doesn't take much more or less time doing it this way or melting wax on iron letting it drip down. But it's certainly better way, as you have more ptex covered with wax, and less chance for direct contact between base and iron (you know, those of us who spent at least some time in xc skiing, are especially anal with these things :D ), so there's less chance for base to get damaged by hot iron. I always do this first, and then melt and drip wax on (or more of them if you mix waxes together and not in layers).
    As far as temperature goes, 130c is quite ok general temperature for most of CH waxes, while for fluoro waxes temperature goes up even to 150c, but for racing, where every little thing matters, temperature can be normally from 120 to 140c depending on snow conditions (about +/-10c also for LH/HF which can mean also 160c in some cases). Fluoro overlays are completely different thing with temperatures up to 180 or 190c, but that's single fast pass with iron over the ski, not really relatively slow pass as with "normal" waxes.
    There's few reasons why I always used higher temperatures. One... ski is exposed to heat shorter time. 20 or 30c higher temperature but quite a bit shorter time won't make heat protrude deep into ski, and influence all the glues and materials inside of ski. Having 20 or 30c less (you still need 90-100c if you want to melt wax at all) and heating ski for few minutes will sooner or later (in reality sooner) change skis characteristics (with xc it's even more obvious with even worse results). Another thing is wax itself, especially if you use high fluoro waxes. The more and the longer you heat the wax, the more fluoro goes out, and if you are paying almost 100eur/pair for wax, you certainly don't want lot of fluoro go into air, but to stay on skis making them fast. So with single fast pass, even with few degrees more, you keep more fluoro in base.
     
  16. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    In that the cleanup time is much faster, it is. ogwink
     
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  17. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    I don't use the Purple Hayes either. It is really demanding of the non-Zardoz component, much, much more than the Felix, and I now know of 2 CH and 3 LF waxes that simply will not work with it. 2 of those combinations create a gooey spongy mess that can't be scraped off, and are hard to get off with organic solvents. Yep, that was 4 grinds I didn't really need.

    The Felix is awesome as a range extender on multi-day destination trips.
     
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  18. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    Absolutely! That and a Zardoz puck and I'm good for a 7day trip......... unless there's a waxing setup in the condo, hotel or at the mtn.......... then some variety of a "Real" waxing depending on the available tools and proximity to the local brewery!
     
  19. Yo Momma

    Yo Momma Out on the slopes Skier

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    .... and of course proper Waxing music........ the bridge......... wait for it........ mind out of the gutter, think skis!!!

     
  20. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    I have it on good authority that snow gods like calypso.

     
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