Hop turns?

[tromano]

The last few times out i have found my self doing some hop turns in steepish (30*+) spots where it is a bit concave and the snow is inconsistent catchy crud. Usually I am just hopping in transition and finishing the turn normally. I have never done these before this year and the first few have been by accident. Is this a reasonable approach for the situation?

 

[Blue Streak]

Some of us hop more easily than others.
Jus' sayin'.

 

[AmyPJ]

@tromano, my husband does those in Lone Tree, I believe! He just skied it today. I look up there and shudder.

 

[Josh Matta]

yes it is. Could there be better ways? maybe. could there be worse ways for sure!

On another note if your tryin to hop of the ground with out using ski performance your doing it wrong.

 

[James]

Some hop turns in this clip.

 

[crgildart]

Freestyle coach used to make us do hop turns down the steepest 150 feet of vertical then turn around and.run back up fishbone then hop turn down again.

 

[4ster]

 

[tromano]

Thanks for the encouragement, will keep them in my tool kit. May practice more like crgil suggested.

 

[Johnny V.]

Something I need to work on!

 

[Crank]

Hop turns are a good tactic for skiing heavy crud. I recall a day skiing untracked snow on a 55 degree day in Vail's China Bowl. Fairly low angle stuff. I took off first, told my 11-year old son to jump up out of the glop and turn like I was. He followed me in and did just fine. We were with 2 Epic Bears we met up with out there. One was an advanced skier the other a solid intermediate...both had come off 3 days of instruction at a place that is much reviled on Epic (rhymes with barb). My son and I waited a good 5 minutes for them to make their way down that easy pitch.

Used to call them airplane turns back in the day.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Leapers, where you change edges in the air

 

[mdf]

I consider hop turns the final survival turn in steep, narrow places. The problem is, I have a tendency to get freaked out and resort to them before they are really necessary.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

The last few times out i have found my self doing some hop turns in steepish (30*+) spots where it is a bit concave and the snow is inconsistent catchy crud. Usually I am just hopping in transition and finishing the turn normally. I have never done these before this year and the first few have been by accident. Is this a reasonable approach for the situation?

This is a good tactic to know how to use, but it is tiring and can be slow because it sucks a lot of momentum out of your turns. A similar approach to a strong up-unweighting (but less tiring) is a strong retraction when the skis are loaded in the turn. This accomplishes the same thing (gets the skis out of the snow) so you can roll to your new edges or pivot - whatever suits your style and space you're working with. The nice part about the retraction as opposed to the extension, is it lets your momentum between turns build so you can adopt a sting/float approach to skiing cruddy snow so you don't have to essentially jump during the transition of every turn in order to get the float you need.

Here's a clip of me skiing some cut up windblown powder on roughly a 35-40 degree pitch [starting at 0:50, maybe 6-8 inches deep]. Notice the skis come up out of the snow during transition but I am retracting... this is similar to what I am describing.

We were with 2 Epic Bears we met up with out there. One was an advanced skier the other a solid intermediate...both had come off 3 days of instruction at a place that is much reviled on Epic (rhymes with barb). My son and I waited a good 5 minutes for them to make their way down that easy pitch.

You must be so amazing. :eyeroll:

 

[cantunamunch]

Hop turns are a good tactic for skiing heavy crud. .

\

^This
Does anyone remember the winter of '96 when it went from walls of snow one day to warm heavy fog the next then back again?

I was at Sutton after the first storm rolled through; it started snowing again soon enough. I was happy to get 15cm of fresh snow, but then it turned into rain. Heavy wet saturating rain. Which then went back to, no not snow, but freezing rain. The sort that builds 5cm of ice on buildings in less than 2 hours.

Ok, skiing next morning looked pretty hopeless. Except I drove to the hill anyway. And...it was white! No bare spots no grass no rocks. I headed out; I think 3 of my then-ski-friends also did.

Imagine breakable crust. Just /barely/ breakable crust. Everywhere. Oh, sure, it's just crust, right? We know how to ski that. Except NOT. Under that breakable crust was spongy soaked wet glue snow, almost the full 15cm worth. HTF to ski that?

I went to hop turns. Top to bottom, straight down the fall line, nothing but hop turns. No point in trying to slide through the muck. No point in trying to finesse the crust into snapping just right.

It worked. Sure I was gasping for air at the bottom, but hey, the front side chair was running so I went again. And again.

On the third lift ride I saw my friends (self serving opportunistic lazy bum-piles that they were) skiing. In the lines I had ski-packed.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Worst fall I ever took was on a very steep chute at Mammoth entering with a hop turn into thick, frozen, breakable crust. One ski broke through and came off then I made a beautiful second hop turn with one ski but that came off too. Virtual freefall for 200 yards. After my head thawed a little bit and I looked back it was as though someone shot my skis into the top of the chute with a bow, they were sticking straight out.

In summary… may not be a great move in a steep chute in thick, frozen, breakable crust.

 

[Crank]

[QUOTE="HeluvaSkier,
You must be so amazing. :eyeroll:[/QUOTE]

I was merely trying to point out that the way instructors tell you to ski is not always the best way to ski. Both the skiers we waited for while they beat themselves up trying to ski that crud with "proper" technique were perfectly capable of making it down the same way we did: hop turns. My amazingness is besides the point.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

I was merely trying to point out that the way instructors tell you to ski is not always the best way to ski. Both the skiers we waited for while they beat themselves up trying to ski that crud with "proper" technique were perfectly capable of making it down the same way we did: hop turns. My amazingness is besides the point.

We both know you could have left it at "skiers trying to execute perfect technique," instead of taking a shot at the source. Not really a value-add since an actual expert at said technique can ski those kinds of conditions with ease. From the sounds of it neither practitioner was particularly good at executing what they had been taught and were probably learning, so why call them out? If our paths cross someday, do you want me to hop the internet skiing forum of your choice and list off how I measured my wait time with a calendar, and how it reflects upon the instruction source of your choice [or lack of one]? I don't think either really fosters a civil discussion, do you?

 

[tromano]

@HeluvaSkier thanks for chiming in. The reason I started this thread was uncertainty about the efficiency of hop turns. Your video has given me something to think about.

 

[Josh Matta]

[QUOTE="HeluvaSkier,
You must be so amazing. :eyeroll:

I was merely trying to point out that the way instructors tell you to ski is not always the best way to ski. Both the skiers we waited for while they beat themselves up trying to ski that crud with "proper" technique were perfectly capable of making it down the same way we did: hop turns. My amazingness is besides the point.[/QUOTE]

I am fairly sure that if you know how to release your edges that hop turns become something that are needed much less of the time, sure are fun though.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Helluva,
Nice turns. I'm curious... what skis are you on in those clips?