Higher level ski instruction options?

[HardDaysNight]

Yes. Obviously it’s more hours than almost anyone can take advantage of.

 

[Noodler]

I'm pretty sure this is the only answer for major improvements once you achieve a certain skill level.

Depends. As is said, perfect practice makes perfect. If you don't practice the correct movements, you're just ingraining bad habits and more insidious problems in your skiing. Snow time is needed, but how you use that snow time is what will make the difference. Developing a biofeedback loop is critical; the best available is video combined with a coach that knows how to properly provide MA and prescribe the correct remediation.

 

[geepers]

The best value of which I’m aware is the Masters program at PCMR. It consists of 90 days of coaching, Monday through Friday for the large bulk of the season, 9:30 am -11:30 am drills/coaching in groups (4-6 people) divided by ability; 11:30am- 1 pm gates, if desired, either slalom or gs with coaching; 2:00 pm -3:30pm free skiing with coaching. That amounts to 450 hours of coaching/training per season directed by some of the best, including exWC skiers, overall World Masters champions and top flight accredited coaches. It used to cost $950 per season but Vail, having taken over PCMR, has increased the price steadily to its current $1700. Disgraceful!

That's still sensational value.

Is that sustainable from a business POV?

 

[Ogg]

Depends. As is said, perfect practice makes perfect. If you don't practice the correct movements, you're just ingraining bad habits and more insidious problems in your skiing. Snow time is needed, but how you use that snow time is what will make the difference. Developing a biofeedback loop is critical; the best available is video combined with a coach that knows how to properly provide MA and prescribe the correct remediation.

You're right. I had originally added "with occasional lessons or coaching" but wanted to keep my comment simple.

 

[Pequenita]

Depends. As is said, perfect practice makes perfect. If you don't practice the correct movements, you're just ingraining bad habits and more insidious problems in your skiing. Snow time is needed, but how you use that snow time is what will make the difference. Developing a biofeedback loop is critical; the best available is video combined with a coach that knows how to properly provide MA and prescribe the correct remediation.

You're right. I had originally added "with occasional lessons or coaching" but wanted to keep my comment simple.

Which, you know, is the essence of my post, more or less.

Seasonal masters programs like the PCMR one (and I know other places like Squaw has one) can be sustainable because I don't think everyone registered for it shows up every day of the season. It's offered 5+ days a week, but not everyone shows up every day, every week. But if you can swing it, it's a great deal.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Vail - full day private - $1,049

Private Ski and Snowboard Lessons | Vail Ski Resort

You, and up to 5 friends and family members, will explore Vail together in this fine-tuned guided lesson.

www.vail.com

Did you put the ad there yourself? I'm just going to say that a full-day private at Stowe is now $1025 during the holidays, so that I can see if an ad appears in my post too. I think this is about twice what I am worth, but I am currently booked every day through New Years, so what do I know?

 

[KingGrump]

Did you put the ad there yourself? I'm just going to say that a full-day private at Stowe is now $1025 during the holidays, so that I can see if an ad appears in my post too. I think this is about twice what I am worth, but I am currently booked every day through New Years, so what do I know?

I am neither an instructor nor have any affiliation with Vail other than a few Epic pass about 8 years ago.
I just copy the URL from the Vail private lesson page and paste it on here. No editing at all.

 

[markojp]

I would love to take a private lesson with a top instructor. It's really hard to justify the cost. Our family's CFO (my wife) will certainly deny the request.

Based on what all the instructors I've skied with have said I'm mid level 8 skier. Most have said that I'm a 9 but I'm realistic enough to know I'm not. There's a lot of improvement to be had. On days I really have my skiing dialed in (which is few and far in between) I'm probably close to a level 9.


The skill that I've been working on most is consistently staying stacked in all situations. It feels like I can do it probably 90% of the time but it's that 1 out of 10 turns in which my hips drop back a touch or there's too much break in the waist or my pole plant is little late and pulls my shoulder back a tad and I have to take a turn or two to make a recovery. Or it's a more challenging condition (big, hard, steep bumps, tight trees with heavy crud, boilerplate steeps) that will put me in a tentative posture for the most challenging sections of that run. It feels like there's a fundamental skill (or a number of them) which I'm lacking to maintain that consistency. With the group lessons I've taken it hasn't felt like there's been an attempt to identify those fundamental skills my skiing is lacking let alone what to do to address them. I realize it takes some individualized MA to do that but shouldn't most L3 instructors be able to do that in the span of an all day lesson for each student? The instructors I've skied with have mostly been telling me what I already know but no one has really given me solid instruction on how to correct it. So I rely on me trying fine tuning my fore-aft balance by working on dolphin turns (which hurt my knee, especially the 1st movement), 1000 steps, one footed skiing (hurts the knee as well), pivot slips, side slipping and skiing my 1st few runs with my boots essentially unbuckled. I'll try to get some video of my skiing and request some MA for the fine folks here on Pugski. Unfortunately, my camera crew are my 9 and 10 yo boys so it could be an exercise in futility.

Just a quick one, but dialing in that last bit between 8 and 9 takes serious effort. Often there's an issue that will require you to sort out something very basic (usually at the feet) that will require some 'slow' time. This is very deliberate stuff that can be heavy lifting for most folks who are just out to recreate instead of re-create.

 

[markojp]

Hey, first time posting here.

So Prosper, you ski in the back seat when the slope is hairy? That's the same for everybody!


. If I were taking group lessons, I'd only expect something like "you pull your right hand back a bit too much, like an inch" or "you lean your head a bit on left turns" which are great help even though I KNOW I do those.

The first bit.... politely, I say BS. 'Good' skiers aren't at all in the back seat in tough terrain.

Second bit. You haven't taken a group lesson with an instructor who know their stuff, but in fairness, you did say that you hadn't taken a group lesson.

 

[KingGrump]

I'm just going to say that a full-day private at Stowe is now $1025 during the holidays,

Looks like Vail charges a bit more during the holidays. This is a screen shot from the Vail site for Dec 26.
Book on line and you'll save $130.

 

[Tom Holtmann]

To get better "value" for you dollar it is worth it to look at smaller resorts. They still have excellent instructors and in many places one might argue just as good as the super upscale resort like Vail or Aspen. For example, instead of Vail how about Loveland. A full day at Loveland is $429. Also, one might think about whether a full day is actually the way to go. A three hour at Loveland is $249 and a 2 hour is $179. From my experience there are diminishing returns to a lesson after a couple of hours. I personally respond best to working on one or two things with a pro and then working on it myself the rest of the day. Many times the break thru comes when I'm working by myself.

 

[PinnacleJim]

Killington has an adult program, 12 Saturdays November through March with 4.5 hrs of coaching each day for $699. Includes two video sessions and you cut the liftlines. Cheaper if you buy early.

 

[Crank]

I kind of taught myself to ski softer. Nowhere near as soft as Grump. It's a journey and you know what they say...

My 2-cents is maybe take a regular hour or 2 private lesson. Your instructor should be someone who is old. Who still skis well and has first-hand knowledge of the issues you are encountering and trying to counter.

Take the lesson, work on it on your own. Repeat if it works and you need more.

"One day your kids will ski as good as you, but, just for one day and then they will be better." Warren Miller.

 

[beginnerskier96]

Are there any beginner ski clinics? Preferably ones for L1-2 skiers who are complete beginners to the sport. Suggestions appreciated thank you.

 

[KevinF]

Did you put the ad there yourself? I'm just going to say that a full-day private at Stowe is now $1025 during the holidays, so that I can see if an ad appears in my post too. I think this is about twice what I am worth, but I am currently booked every day through New Years, so what do I know?

Next time I call to book you, I'll be sure to mention the half-price discount you feel I should be getting.

 

[amlemus]

Value = Improvement/Cost. (Arguably.)

So the best value would probably come from even a small improvement gained for extremely low cost. A free improvement could have an infinite "value".

I can't argue this. It's technically correct; which is the best way to be correct.

 

[Prosper]

Hey, first time posting here.

So Prosper, you ski in the back seat when the slope is hairy? That's the same for everybody! From day one to day one thousand, everybody is like that, just at different levels. Drills are good, AS LONG AS they match your level and you know what to do. Doing drills that are too hard for you can actually hurt your progress. They have to be easy enough so you can concentrate on the form and really perfect them.

At a certain level and up, there is not a novel, new, eye opening trick to improve your skiing imo. Just refining what are obvious. For example, most people know separation is important but to my eyes, most people, myself included, don't have perfect separation except for top level racers. If I were taking group lessons, I'd only expect something like "you pull your right hand back a bit too much, like an inch" or "you lean your head a bit on left turns" which are great help even though I KNOW I do those. I can't see myself when I'm skiing and taking a video is a lot of hassle. Another pair of eyes of someone who can actually ski is nice.

If you don't want to pay for instructions, then it's obvious you need to work harder. By that I mean doing research yourself to know what teaching methods and drills are out there and also training when you are not on snow. You can't be really good at something if you only do it once a week. You have to do it several times a week at least and there are some things you could do at home and/or the gym. Top ski racers can do squats on a balance ball with a 50lb barbell on their back. Even if they had zero skiing skills, that balancing ability itself is probably enough to surpass most skiers.

With the kids you may not have a whole lot of time but 15 min a day can make a lot of difference in a lot of things. Wish you good luck!

Not sure if this how much wheat is in this chaff or whether it merits a reply, but I'll give it a shot. I've seen many high level skiers who don't ski in the back set in any conditions. I wouldn't say that I ski in the back seat consistently on any specific terrain type. It's more of making a bad turn or not reacting to the terrain quickly enough that throws my COM aft which requires a recovery. As far as I can tell I'm not a back seat driver.

I'm not looking for an a-ha moment or significant breakthrough. I'm continually refining. The challenge is getting good eyes to observe and then recommend how to make those refinements. That's the whole point of this thread. In my experience it's been more difficult for me to get that instruction. The only one with perfect upper-lower body separation that I know of is Darth Maul post-duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi.

What's your definition of "really good." Sounds like you're saying "really good" is WC racers. How quickly someone becomes "really good" at anything is multi-factorial. Yes, putting in the miles and hard work helps a lot. I'd argue that natural ability is probably as significant a factor as the hard work and time invested. I think there are definitely people who can get reasonably proficient at something by doing it once a week. It's much easier if one is naturally gifted. Remember, we're talking about recreational skiing here. Many recreational skiers are "really good" skiing once a week or less.

 

[David Chaus]

Are there any beginner ski clinics? Preferably ones for L1-2 skiers who are complete beginners to the sport. Suggestions appreciated thank you.

You location is Surrey, which one, BC or UK?

If you’re in BC, then going to Grouse, Seymour or Cypress is pretty easy, and they will have appropriate classes for you, even private instruction if you want.

 

[Prosper]

Value = Improvement/Cost. (Arguably.)

So the best value would probably come from even a small improvement gained for extremely low cost. A free improvement could have an infinite "value".

I don't think it's that simple. That formula is too black and white. What's valuable for one could be worthless to another at any cost. Also, there's more than just monetary cost. I think a better equation is value=perceived benefit/perceived or actual cost.

 

[CoPow]

Not sure if this how much wheat is in this chaff or whether it merits a reply, but I'll give it a shot.

Oh, trust me, it's all wheat! It sounds like you are a fairly competent skier and I don't believe you are skiing in the back seat all the time. But you probably have back seat moments that last like 0.1 second. If you are going at 20mph, you move 3 feet in that 0.1 second. Cruising on a groomed, it may not make much difference, you just go 3 feet farther. On a bumps, especially on a steep, you pretty much missed all your space to make a turn (3 feet) so it becomes obvious. The good skiers you know have back seat moments too, it's just when you see them, they are either well within their comfort zone and don't make mistakes, or when they make mistakes, they recover from it quickly so you don't see it. The situation needs to be pretty demanding for a really good skier to completely screw up, but they do get in the back seat once in a while.

My definition of "really good" is someone better than me at least and that's waaaaay below WC racer level. But still, there is a huge gap between recreational skiers and a slowest/worst competitive skier who have been training 5 days a week for several years, and that's the problem. Level 9 seems to be it's the end of the recreational spectrum and the beginning of non-recreational skier. You can't be non-recreational anything if you only do it once a week. I'm not saying you can never be at that level, I mostly ski only once a week too so I do things like one legged squat on a flipped bosu ball and do other sports that requires sense of speed and balance which probably helped me a lot to ski better. It's likely impossible to make someone a true level 9 with only one or several or even several dozen group lessons. Only thing they can do is give you some pointers. Speaking of which, what feedback did you actually get that you"already knew"? You said you have fore aft balancing issue and it seems you are doing fore-aft drills which is good, but fore-aft balance is only one piece of the big picture. You SHOULD have upper/lower body separation like Darth Maul for example, haha. Wait, no seriously.