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Higher level ski instruction options?

Dave Marshak

All Time World Champion
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Try skiing the entire day with the unbuckled boots. Good way to learn limits.
That's more risky than you think. The boot is the lever that opens your heel binding, and if you unbuckle the heel will not release, or maybe your foot comes out of the boot. I still do it occasionally, but I never ask anyone else to unbuckle.

dm
 

KingGrump

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That's more risky than you think. The boot is the lever that opens your heel binding, and if you unbuckle the heel will not release, or maybe your foot comes out of the boot. I still do it occasionally, but I never ask anyone else to unbuckle.

dm

If the power/booster strap is secured properly, the lever still exist. The boot spine is the real lever rather than the front of the upper cuff. The heel binding will release.
My recommended DIN setting is 7 according to the chart. I set my DIN to 10 so I don't walk out of of the binding. I have release from my bindings on multiple occasions over the years. I am very comfortable with my current setup.
My point with limits is to find them but not exceed them. Taken into consideration the times I have seen skiers hucking their meat down terrain way over their head. Skiing with unbuckled boots is much safer alternative.
 

CoPow

Putting on skis
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Or maybe don't. Regardless that the instructor gets paid, you would be distracting him from his paying clients and making his job harder, and maybe pissing his clients off as well. IF you did it to me I'd find a way to get rid of you.

dm
mmm, maybe I don't.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
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@Prosper, here's the thing. When you get to an advanced level of skiing, you have a set of ingrained movement patterns that you use in your skiing. The reason they are there is because they worked for you. And depending on how long, and how often, you've practiced those movement patterns will dictate how ingrained they are.

Some of those movement patterns are likely dead-ends that are frustrating your efforts to become a more accomplished skier. And those movement patterns are likely embedded in your belief system about how to make a turn, what biomechanics are involved, what the physics are that govern ski performance, as well as your tactics. And all of that is specific to YOU -- it's not only YOUR ingrained movement patterns, but YOUR anatomy, YOUR beliefs, YOUR tactics, and YOUR experience.

At the high levels of skiing and learning, it takes a lot of time, study, practice, questioning, and feedback to make significant changes in your skiing. The process is most assuredly NOT easy. And while some might be able to do so on their own, success of self study and self instruction is NOT likely to be successful. Why? Because an external frame of reference is not only most useful, but often required.

How many times have you been asked to perform a task while skiing, thinking then that you performed it, only to find out you did not? And how might one who is attempting to take their skiing to the next level (which implies that the knowledge of what's deficient in the current movement patterns, what would be more ideal, and what the best method of addressing the gap with the least effort and most reward is) be able to accomplish that task?

Group lessons are not private lessons. They are specific to the issues in the group, not the individual. And while some instruction in a group session may provide feedback to the individual, the lesson almost certainly will not be tailored to any single individual -- it's just unlikely that everyone needs exactly the same thing at the same time. Or masters the task at the same rate.

This is why, at the higher levels, private lessons are much more efficient than group lessons. They are also much more expensive. My own development path used group lessons for more than 10 years. But in the end, what made the difference was private lessons with a coach whom I had developed a relationship. And my group lesson experience was in a "lesson club" group where I skied with the same instructor every week -- a better experience than random group lessons that I've found are good usually for social fun, but not for deep learning.

So, my advice for you is to find a coaching opportunity. I realize most people cannot afford private lessons, and (IMHO) it isn't just a single, or even a few, private lessons that will make the difference. If you aren't one fortunate enough to be able to think about a long-term private coaching experience, then look for an opportunity to find a coach in a group setting.

That's why I think finding a masters racing program would work for you. You will have coaching from a consistent source. And racing has a focus on technique, and a measurement protocol to assess progress: your time.

A race camp would also be a good option. A lot of instructors here in Aspen go to the Rossignol race camp at Mammoth the first week of May. Very high level coaching, and you'd have a lot of very experienced instructors in your group (many of whom are examiners in PSIA as well as coaches in the USSA) around you to help out. Plus Mikeala Schiffrin is there running gates next to the training for inspiration.

Just my $.02 from a fellow traveller who has been remaking his skiing for the past 15 years.

Mike

Nominated for post of the month. Nice job. :) :thumb:
 
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TS
Prosper

Prosper

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@Prosper, here's the thing. When you get to an advanced level of skiing, you have a set of ingrained movement patterns that you use in your skiing. The reason they are there is because they worked for you. And depending on how long, and how often, you've practiced those movement patterns will dictate how ingrained they are.

Some of those movement patterns are likely dead-ends that are frustrating your efforts to become a more accomplished skier. And those movement patterns are likely embedded in your belief system about how to make a turn, what biomechanics are involved, what the physics are that govern ski performance, as well as your tactics. And all of that is specific to YOU -- it's not only YOUR ingrained movement patterns, but YOUR anatomy, YOUR beliefs, YOUR tactics, and YOUR experience.

At the high levels of skiing and learning, it takes a lot of time, study, practice, questioning, and feedback to make significant changes in your skiing. The process is most assuredly NOT easy. And while some might be able to do so on their own, success of self study and self instruction is NOT likely to be successful. Why? Because an external frame of reference is not only most useful, but often required.

How many times have you been asked to perform a task while skiing, thinking then that you performed it, only to find out you did not? And how might one who is attempting to take their skiing to the next level (which implies that the knowledge of what's deficient in the current movement patterns, what would be more ideal, and what the best method of addressing the gap with the least effort and most reward is) be able to accomplish that task?

Group lessons are not private lessons. They are specific to the issues in the group, not the individual. And while some instruction in a group session may provide feedback to the individual, the lesson almost certainly will not be tailored to any single individual -- it's just unlikely that everyone needs exactly the same thing at the same time. Or masters the task at the same rate.

This is why, at the higher levels, private lessons are much more efficient than group lessons. They are also much more expensive. My own development path used group lessons for more than 10 years. But in the end, what made the difference was private lessons with a coach whom I had developed a relationship. And my group lesson experience was in a "lesson club" group where I skied with the same instructor every week -- a better experience than random group lessons that I've found are good usually for social fun, but not for deep learning.

So, my advice for you is to find a coaching opportunity. I realize most people cannot afford private lessons, and (IMHO) it isn't just a single, or even a few, private lessons that will make the difference. If you aren't one fortunate enough to be able to think about a long-term private coaching experience, then look for an opportunity to find a coach in a group setting.

That's why I think finding a masters racing program would work for you. You will have coaching from a consistent source. And racing has a focus on technique, and a measurement protocol to assess progress: your time.

A race camp would also be a good option. A lot of instructors here in Aspen go to the Rossignol race camp at Mammoth the first week of May. Very high level coaching, and you'd have a lot of very experienced instructors in your group (many of whom are examiners in PSIA as well as coaches in the USSA) around you to help out. Plus Mikeala Schiffrin is there running gates next to the training for inspiration.

Just my $.02 from a fellow traveller who has been remaking his skiing for the past 15 years.

Mike

Thanks Mike for the really thoughtful post. Lots of really great points and lots for me to think about.

Good way to get black toenails
I'm a bit surprised that someone hasn't taken Black Toenails as a screen name. That would be a good one.
 
Last edited:

Ogg

Skiing the powder
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Long Island, NY
Not if the boots fit and the proper motions are utilized.
I have to agree with this.
My younger brothers who are far better skiers than I could ever hope to be have very different styles and attitudes about equipment. The older one is the minimalist, "suck it up and make it work" type with a very aggressive style and he always has black toenails. The younger one is way more dialed into his gear and is an incredibly smooth finesse skier and AFAIK has never had a black toenail from skiing.
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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If the buckles aren't keeping your feet from sliding forward, you'll get black toenails.
 

CoPow

Putting on skis
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I don't think you are supposed to ski that hard with the buckles undone. The purpose is NOT to ski hard and just stay centered and feel the balance for warm up. At least when I do it it is.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
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Mods might want to extricate all of this unbuckled boot discussion and put it in the current unbuckled boot thread.
 

Wannabeskibum

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It's disappointing to hear about someone who didn't enjoy their time with us. I'm glad you got comp'ed but I wish you hadn't needed to. I have to say that I am surprised about your description of what happened, especially on a weekend. I've never seen staffing be a problem in our upper level groups, and I've never noticed top level groups go out with such a disparity in abilities. A level 9 group where someone can't handle those bumps just sounds SO unlike us.

I'll guess you know this already, but I'll say that what needs to happen for you is to make sure that you voice your concerns about happened to you and that you want to make sure that your group is built properly this time. And, make sure you clearly state what you hope to do that day. Another thing that can help is to clearly explain what terrain you can easily handle at the area where you are taking the lesson; you know Breck, tell us what of our stuff you can ski. That gives a clearer picture of your abilities than the very subjective "I'm a level x". Humble honesty helps too; if someone says "Hey, I ski E-Chair all the time, but I'm not smooth, and really good skiers rip past me all the time", that tells me what terrain we'll be skiing today and much of what we'll be working on. Obviously, a private lesson gets you more specific feedback and skiing specific to your desires, but our upper level workshops will get most people all they can handle as well.
I can vouch for the above. Over the past few years, I have participated in the Elevate lessons at Breck (meeting at Vista Haus). I always start off with what terrain I have been skiing and what I am looking to gain from the lesson. Usually it is me, the coach, and maybe one or two other similar level 9 skiers. @Rich McP, I haven’t had the pleasure of skiing with you, but I have skied with many of your colleagues and they are exceptional coaches and skiers
 

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