hey, you want to go touring ?

[James]

So the Atomic Hawx XTD's definitely had the top insert without the notch and the Hojis the Master Step.

Hoji's pictured in this thread. I can't remember exactly why, but preference seems to be original style toe with Master Step heel. Maybe compatibility with Shift.

https://www.wildsnow.com/25598/tech-fittings-ski-touring-names-dynafit/

 

[jmeb]

I don't think they "certify" other companies manufacturing of inserts. TUV would do that, like UL here. There's a written standard.

Dynafit doesn't certify other company's inserts. However, they do supply the certified inserts to many other boot companies like Atomic, Scarpa, etc.

 

[Analisa]

Hoji's pictured in this thread. I can't remember exactly why, but preference seems to be original style toe with Master Step heel. Maybe compatibility with Shift.

It’s more for durability. The Master Step heelpiece is ideal since it’s secured from inside the boot instead of an exposed screw at the heel. For the toes, as the lugged soles are worn down, boots with standard inserts can have the interchangeable sole pieces or be replaced by a skilled cobbler. If you’re lazy and don’t replace the sole, you’ve got more plastic to wear through before they’re wrecked. QSI & Master Step comes in multiple pieces that are only made by dynafit & are impossible to find replacements for.

 

[Rod9301]

What do people do with locking the toe of tech bindings? Do people ski locked out? Would seem to negate an airbag for avalanche as the skis drag you down.

You would need to lock the toes on certain bindings, when you ski no fall terrain in firm conditions.

No need to in powder.

The only bindings that I'm aware that you don't have to lock the toes are Salomon MTN and g3 ion, because they have strong Tue springs.

 

[James]

Ok, so if you're skinning across an avalanche path, would you not put it in full walk mode so it could release or would you come out too easily with the side slope?

 

[Ken_R]

It’s more for durability. The Master Step heelpiece is ideal since it’s secured from inside the boot instead of an exposed screw at the heel. For the toes, as the lugged soles are worn down, boots with standard inserts can have the interchangeable sole pieces or be replaced by a skilled cobbler. If you’re lazy and don’t replace the sole, you’ve got more plastic to wear through before they’re wrecked. QSI & Master Step comes in multiple pieces that are only made by dynafit & are impossible to find replacements for.

View attachment 74848 View attachment 74849

I see new boots in your near future

 

[Analisa]

I see new boots in your near future

They only have about 375 days on them. I’ve thought about replacing the liners.

Ok, so if you're skinning across an avalanche path, would you not put it in full walk mode so it could release or would you come out too easily with the side slope?

For a lot of bindings, locked out toes & released heels is walk mode. On the Dynafit Radical/Rotations, unlocking them would mean they start spinning on your foot (like it straight ahead is “true north,” unlocked, they wander to NW-NE). I skinned like that for about 20 minutes in my avy class, so it’s possible, but my guide was sure to give a ton of shit for it. It would mean a lot of extra time in the exposure area.

Even if they didn't twist, I wouldn't skin without them locked. Stomping out a good footing for a kick turn or an awkward step in the skin track can easily be enough to pop them off, especially if there's any lateral rotation at the ankle. But realistically, the forces of an avalanche are more than enough to overcome the locking mechanism and rip the skis off. Victims have been found in their socks after slides pulled their boots off, which blows my mind. Likewise, these two pieces used to be a regular road sign:

 

[Ken_R]

Just putting this out here:

 

[Analisa]

Just putting this out here:

View attachment 74892

The Hojis are such a sore spot for me. Incompatible with all 3 pairs of crampons in the gear room (and friends who do go for full autos inevitably end up with Dynafit toe bails when they've worn their mountaineering boots or vice versa). And then they also do this

Thought about picking up a pair of new Mercuries on eBay that are missing a booster tongue, or picking up one of the 23.5 Vulcans in Europe, or trying the Tecnica Zero G since their inbound boots fit me okay. But out of all of those, I prefer to be blissfully optimistic about how long these'll go. (They're my first ever pair of boots and the fit makes me question whether I was a Dynafit fit mold in another life. I'm definitely attached.)

But whoever killed the Mercury & Vulcan for the Hojis can shove it

 

[James]

Just putting this out here:

View attachment 74892

You've got a good looking spouse there!
I've been reading on the Hoji/Fritschi Tecton issues. Not enough forward stride angle because of the more rearward location of the pins. The 18/19 Tecton is better, some are ok with it, Lou Dawson doesn't recommend. Have you tried a Tecton with it?

Apparently this coming year the Hoji Free will come out without the Speed nose and be crampon and shift etc compatible. Perhaps.

How do you like skiing it compared to the Hawk xtd blah blah?

https://www.wildsnow.com/25175/dynafit-hoji-boot-tecton-evo-vipec-fritschi/
18/19 modified Tecton:
https://www.wildsnow.com/25582/fritschi-evo-tecton-toe-change-2018/

Years ago I used to work with a guy who'd say "Laziness is the mother of invention." After discussng, I had to agree. Reading the Hoji review, apparently the inventor of that boot and the Pin binding (Dynafit) agrees.

" 'I design out of laziness. I want a ski boot that doesn’t require pulling my pants up and struggling with latches and buckles,' says Fritz Barthel..."
https://www.wildsnow.com/25853/hoji-pro-ski-touring-boot-review/

Hoji Free Tour

https://www.wildsnow.com/25681/hoji-free-ski-touring-boot-review/

 

[Ken_R]

You've got a good looking spouse there!
I've been reading on the Hoji/Fritschi Tecton issues. Not enough forward stride angle because of the more rearward location of the pins. The 18/19 Tecton is better, some are ok with it, Lou Dawson doesn't recommend. Have you tried a Tecton with it?

Apparently this coming year the Hoji Free will come out without the Speed nose and be crampon and shift etc compatible. Perhaps.

How do you like skiing it compared to the Hawk xtd blah blah?

https://www.wildsnow.com/25175/dynafit-hoji-boot-tecton-evo-vipec-fritschi/
18/19 modified Tecton:
https://www.wildsnow.com/25582/fritschi-evo-tecton-toe-change-2018/

Years ago I used to work with a guy who'd say "Laziness is the mother of invention." After discussng, I had to agree. Reading the Hoji review, apparently the inventor of that boot and the Pin binding (Dynafit) agrees.

" 'I design out of laziness. I want a ski boot that doesn’t require pulling my pants up and struggling with latches and buckles,' says Fritz Barthel..."
https://www.wildsnow.com/25853/hoji-pro-ski-touring-boot-review/

Hoji Free Tour
View attachment 74894
https://www.wildsnow.com/25681/hoji-free-ski-touring-boot-review/

Compared to the Hawx XTD the Hoji is a tad stiffer and skis great even though the liner is thinner and flexy which is great for touring. The flex is not as progressive (as the Hawx XTD and other good 4 buckle boots) and the stance is a hair more upright but it skis great and can drive big skis no problem.

@Analisa I have a low volume foot and had read about the higher volume fit of the Hoji but I found it to be SNUG. Specially in the instep where most boots are too big for me. The fit is similar to the fit in my Hawx 130S resort boot but tighter in the instep. Both in the same 26.5 size. Go figure. This surprised me.

The crampon issue is inevitable in the blunt nose Dynafits like the Hoji. The available crapon and clip look awesome though but I guess the new Hoji Free solves this issue.

The one step walk mode mechanism (flip up the rear lever and thats it) is really amazing. It is really a must try.

 

[James]

The fit is similar to the fit in my Hawx 130S resort boot but tighter in the instep. Both in the same 26.5 size. Go figure. This surprised me.

Atomic claims it's a 98mm last.
Hoji Pro Tour is 103mm, no?
Makes no sense. Maybe they're using different sizes for last width. Standard is a 26/26.5 shell.
https://shop.atomic.com/en/products/hawx-ultra-130-s-ae0001167.html

 

[Analisa]

The adapter works for sure, but with a 12 point steel pair for steeps, an aluminum pair for fast & light trips, and a beater pair for the routes with a fair amount on crampon-on-rock patches, it adds at least $400 to the boot. And I’d still need all my old ones since my climbing boots aren’t full-auto compatible. The Free looks promising, but they’re only doing it in men’s & starting at a 25. Hella jealous of the walk mechanism though. The Mercury & Vulcan’s walk mode mainly just pulls the cuff of the boot super open and my pant legs can’t fit over it. Looks dumb, but the soggy socks when snow gets in is worse.

@James - their lasts are super weird. Even the Vulcan lists a 103. But it’s measured at the forefoot vs. the instep, where Dynafit tends to be snug. La Sportiva’s in the same boat with a wide last on paper & snug IRL.

 

[James]

Will the Dynastar speed toe disappear? Seems to create more problems getting rid of that toe ledge than it solves.

As crappy a solution that the Daymakers are, the way it pivots is interesting. Basically near the ball of foot.

Check out the gif on this page of moving.
https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/Daymaker-Touring-Adapters-Review

 

[Analisa]

Will the Dynastar speed toe disappear? Seems to create more problems getting rid of that toe ledge than it solves.

Probably not. When you look at true rando race boots, Dynafit is hardly alone with the design. There's practically no welt on the Scarpa Aliens or La Spo Stratos. And it works really well for race - especially since they're working with their sister brand, Salewa, to make a "cramp-in" system where they clip on like a clip-in bike pedal. Super light & super quick transitions. And if you're the kind of racer that doesn't care about the durability issues of a full aluminum crampon with a fabric crossbar, they make a lot of sense.

I think the issue (or my issue with them, probably more aptly) is that they're a really Euro ski brand and the North American market is secondary. And the Euro market skews more towards efficiency since there's more vert, multi-day traverses, more technical gear to carry, more race of a race pedigree. The NA market usually reaches for a ski around 100, definitely over 90, but only 25% of Dynafit offerings go wider than 90. The ex-racer crowd fanboy-ed hard over the Vulcans, and they killed it because it didn't work in Europe. The molds are shared with the a softer, lighter version called the One, which only lived in the US for a year or two. But it's still running really successfully in Europe.

I definitely think it belongs on the PDG, probably the TLT too. They made a good call to skip the speed nose on the Beast & Radical. I think it was the wrong call to put it on the Hoji, but I also suspect the efficiency aspect of it keeps it intriguing across the pond.

 

[Rod9301]

Ok, so if you're skinning across an avalanche path, would you not put it in full walk mode so it could release or would you come out too easily with the side slope?

I put in full walk mode.

If I'm worried about a slope sliding, i will not traverse it or ski it.

 

[James]

Just putting this out here:

View attachment 74892

So in touring do you loosen the power strap and buckles? Reading reviews it seems most have to and the one lift to walk doesn't pan out. It might depend on calf size. Outdoor Gear Lab actually rated the Technica Zero G better on the uphill.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/snow-sports/backcountry-ski-boots/tecnica-zero-g-tour-pro

I think the issue (or my issue with them, probably more aptly) is that they're a really Euro ski brand and the North American market is secondary. And the Euro market skews more towards efficiency since there's more vert, multi-day traverses, more technical gear to carry, more race of a race pedigree.

It may be company culure as much as anything. You never know what goes on. Could be different factions waring. Attitudes towards North America are often odd. Volkswagen for years wouldn't listen to NA execs telling them what they needed. Didn't listen. Took them forever to bring out an SUV. That company's board was a veritable soap opera.

Dynafit did essentially invent the market, no? Perhaps originally it was about long tours with light stuff instead of heavy tele gear. Not that I've paid much attention to AT boots until recently, but the brand has always struck me as for weight weenies. But then there was the Beast binding...

The little I've skied in Europe, there's definitely a market for downhill AT charging boots. It may be a lot smaller than tour oriented boots, no idea how that plays out. But there's need. Places like Verbier are famous for lift accessed off piste. Tours of 10-60 minutes, then quality lines. Maybe you have to skin out the same. I can't imagine you'd want flimsy carbon toilet paper boots. No point.
On the other hand you could skin for miles for excercise, a view, and lunch outside or at a restaurant.

In Chamonix I suspect there's a significant market for stiff AT boots. Lots of super steep lines. Too bad, when I was there and in one of the boot shops, the AT boot scene wasn't something I was real interested in. Hah, just a couple of months ago. I can tell you the owner had been out skiing and was bitching about the boot he'd had to ski. Too soft, he was reminded how much he hated soft flexing boots and how they made the skiing so much worse.

I get the Speed Toe with its no toe ledge for racing, otherwise, seems questionable. Suppose you just want to kick some steps in hard smooth icy snow and climb up a short distance? Can it even do it? Can you trust the special crampons when you actually have to depend on kicking in and hanging off your toes?

Seems like the market has changed enormously in the last 5 years. Sounds like the Hoji Free is going after the rapidly growing downhill oriented AT market. Maybe the Speed Toe faction had the say in what came out first.

 

[Ken_R]

Atomic claims it's a 98mm last.
Hoji Pro Tour is 103mm, no?
Makes no sense. Maybe they're using different sizes for last width. Standard is a 26/26.5 shell.
https://shop.atomic.com/en/products/hawx-ultra-130-s-ae0001167.html

James that is why its always best to try things. I was surprised since I also do some research before selecting a product to try. Boot specs are just all over the place from brand to brand it seems.

Also, the Hoji are superb on the uphill without loosening anything. I was kinda surprised that it worked out even in flat skin tracks and on steep pitches. At least in my case. They felt quite smooth and didnt leave me wanting for more ROM at all.

They are a cut above the Hawx XTD and the XTD's are some of the best if not the best of all the "Hybrid" or "50/50" boots in walk mode (when you loosen the buckles properly)

The Hoji Boots are great on the Downhill. Even with my 195 lb + 15 lb pack they are stiff enough. They can just handle burlier skis than what I tour with. Dont be put off by the blunt nose. The Hojis are MUCH stiffer and supportive and ski much better than a TLT7.

Semi Auto crampons work perfectly on the blunt nose Hoji. The full auto crampons are the ones you cant use with the blunt nose except the Dynafit brand with the clip or with a Dynafit adapter.

 

[scottyb]

in holding pattern for the summah

 

[Noodler]

I haven't personally, but tour occasionally with someone who does.

For single-transition tours they are mostly fine. Sometimes icing issues, always slower transitions.

For tours that have more transitions, they suck.

I don't really see the point with the shift on the market. Not saving much if any weight, and adding complexity. Unless you looooove the Pivot 18.

Sorry to bring back this thread from the dead, but I'm curious about transition timing. My first couple times out I took my time, no rush, and my transition was about 10 minutes. The last time out I did it with more urgency and it was about 5 minutes. If you're not racing, what's the rush? I would think you would want the break to catch your breath and re-energize for the next leg of the tour. What do experienced ski touring folks expect of their skiing partners? Is even 5 minutes considered too long?