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New England Hermitage Club, VT, in the news.
- Thread starter Muleski
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- barnstormer lift at the hermitage club chief financial officer at hermitage dan solaz dover treasurer marco tallini hermitage club ceo and founder jim barnes hermitage ski club hermitage ski club bankruptcy les otten's the balsams private ski clubs ski resort at haystack mountain wilmington town manager scott tucker yellowstone club
That would be neat if it happened. A couple of years ago I did a weekend trip to Okemo with a friend. He was in charge of booking a hotel room, and accidentally booked a place at the base of Ascutney instead of Okemo
! On a map it almost doesn't look like the two are that far apart, but it took almost 40 minutes to get from Ascutney to Okemo. Although we certainly didn't ski it, the terrain at Ascutney looked pretty interesting. I bet it would be fun to skin up the old Ascutney trails, assisted by their rope tow.
SO where are they going? Didn't see an article on it.
It's not a done deal yet. If additional serious offers are received they will go to auction on the snowmaking equipment. My thinking is that it's an appealing purchase for Vail if they send it over to Mt. Snow where they could get all the equipment moved quickly and cheaply. If the plan is to ship across the country, the economics change a bit and you'd think that other resorts may be just as interested.
So Vail won the bid, curious if we ever know where the equipment actually gets sent.
Seems like the other bids were from companies with resorts relatively nearby. Seems odd that Vail would outbid them to ship the guns further away. My money would be on them winding up at Mount Snow, Hunter or Okemo.
I guess this is typical of bankruptcies but I think it's worth noting how this one sale that netted a couple hundred thousand dollars for one bank is going to do millions of dollars of damage to the remaining stakeholders. I'm not blaming the bank here. They had to do what was in their best interest. It's just sad that nobody could figure out a plan that worked out well for more stakeholders. Without this snow making equipment, the mountain isn't opening this year or any time in the near future. This makes most of the resort properties worthless. It severely reduces the value of the slopeside real estate which is no longer slopeside (not to mention reliant on roads and other infrastructure that will no longer be maintained).
Which raises an interesting possibility. Maybe this is Vail's first move in a plan to buy the entire Hermitage Resort (or at least the elements relevant to the ski mountain). As I stated above, by purchasing the snowmaking equipment, Vail drastically reduced the value of the Hermitage Resort....for everyone else. But for Vail, they could purchase the Resort at some newly reduced price and then leave the snow making equipment exactly where it is.
^^ That's an interesting idea. Does the law allow this kind of subterfuge?
AFAIK, Vail owns Mt. Snow now, so perhaps they're intending to re-open Haystack as a feeder/alternative? Or do you think it was just a pick-up of some snow guns so they could use 'em at MS?
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Liquidfeet - At least in the bankruptcy world, yes. It is not really subterfuge though as you have to declare to the Court what it is that you are doing (though not necessarily why).
The proximity of Mt. Snow to Heritage has always made it (with whoever was in charge) the most logical buyer. I don't think the snow gun sale would have any real impact on that reality. It is sweet though that Alterra was thoughtful enough to stop by and bid up their stalking horse offer by $100,000.
The proximity of Mt. Snow to Heritage has always made it (with whoever was in charge) the most logical buyer. I don't think the snow gun sale would have any real impact on that reality. It is sweet though that Alterra was thoughtful enough to stop by and bid up their stalking horse offer by $100,000.
There's been a lot of speculation about this for a long time. I have written a couple posts here as have others. Mt. Snow has expanded snowmaking capacity in recent years and could probably make good use of the guns. But they could probably also make take a shot at integrating Hermitage/Haystack properties. Here are a few points to consider along with some of my thoughts.
1) Mt. Snow used to own Haystack Mountain. This was not a particularly successful endeavor. The terrain at Haystack is not great. It's OK but runs are not terribly interesting or long. The pitch can be inconsistent with long flats and runouts. When operated as a single resort, very few people skied at Haystack, even on the busiest days and even with discounted pricing.
2) Mt. Snow sold Haystack under the provision that it could not be operated as a public resort. I believe this is in the deed. It has since failed twice making it's viability as a private club questionable at best (although I believe that the most recent failure was more an issue with planning and strategy than with the model itself). I imagine that a sale to Mt. Snow (Vail) is the only way this mountain can be opened to the general public again.
3) Plans to integrate the two areas were always held up due to limitations on water access/supply for snowmaking. Mt. Snow has recently increased its capacity so perhaps the integration could work. The terrain in between the two mountains probably doesn't allow for the most interesting skiing although the town recently announced plans to open some of it for backcountry skiing, snowshoeing, etc.
4) For all it's failings, the Hermitage did build an impressive and luxurious lodge at the base of Haystack. This is one area where Mt. Snow has never had a reasonable offering. It's current lodges are utilitarian at best with some buildings simply worn out. They have demonstrated an interest in luxury offerings (the Grand Summit Hotel, some seated dining restaurants) but they haven't pulled it off in my opinion. Perhaps they could actually pull off a luxury offering by building on the Hermitage lodge and other amenities.
These are just some thoughts. No idea what may happen but there's certainly reason to continue speculating.
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Vail has little incentive to purchase and operate Hermitage/Haystack as an actual resort. The investment needed to make it a successful part of Mount Snow simply just does not add up. The ski infrastructure assets from Haystack are valuable to Vail, especially in fixing backlogged issues at the various Peak Resorts properties in New England. Powdr can't make the math really work for the Killington Interconnect. Hard to see how the economics would be any better at Mt Snow.
Vail has strategically stayed away from real estate acquisitions and management when possible in new purchases. All the development on Spruce Peak at Stowe did not change hands when Vail purchased the resort.
The bubble six pack would work great at Mt Sunapee, allowing for a less expensive completion of the West Bowl expansion.
There are also two Skytrac quads with less than a decade of use on them. Those will be desired assets.
Three newer chairs, snowmaking, grooming equipment, and certainly some other miscellaneous stuff has and will go up for sale. Stripping The Hermitage could help improvements at Hunter, Mt Snow, Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat at a much more affordable price.
Even to Vail, Haystack is most useful as a flee market of used parts.
Vail has strategically stayed away from real estate acquisitions and management when possible in new purchases. All the development on Spruce Peak at Stowe did not change hands when Vail purchased the resort.
The bubble six pack would work great at Mt Sunapee, allowing for a less expensive completion of the West Bowl expansion.
There are also two Skytrac quads with less than a decade of use on them. Those will be desired assets.
Three newer chairs, snowmaking, grooming equipment, and certainly some other miscellaneous stuff has and will go up for sale. Stripping The Hermitage could help improvements at Hunter, Mt Snow, Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat at a much more affordable price.
Even to Vail, Haystack is most useful as a flee market of used parts.
All you points are reasonable and it certainly looks like this is where it's all heading.
I will add one more thing to think about on the side of integration. During holidays and weekends, Mt Snow is desperately in need of more space. More trails. More lift capacity. More dining. More lodges. More parking. Combining the areas would help in all these respects. Of course, that becomes a lot of terrain and infrastructure to maintain on less crowded days and I'm not sure how they could make it all make sense. Probably not.
I wonder if Vail would consider adding Mount Snow to Park City, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, and Stowe as resorts with holiday restrictions on its Epic Local Pass? That feels like the easiest solution, at least in the short-term, to solving crowding at Mount Snow during holidays. Certainly of all of the former Peaks resorts, Mount Snow feels like the premier destination, arguably worthy of a holiday-restricted status. Anecdotally, I heard that many of the Ikon resorts were not as crowded during the holidays as you would expect due to so many people buying the holiday-restricted Ikon Base passes, so it could make an actual difference.
The above does not solve the general crowding issues on weekends. I wonder what the cost of acquiring and running Haystack would be compared to incremental terrain expansions on Mount Snow? If they own or can lease land on the mountain itself, I wouldn't be surprised if that were a cheaper solution
?Mike at Killington has said that they make more money in the one week from Xmas to New Years than from opening until then. Storm Skiing Podcast Episode #1 being the source for that.
Resorts want holidays as swamped as possible.
Stowe is the restricted location for Epic Local. Then you would need to debate how to prioritize Okemo vs Mount Snow if you wanted to add a second restricted location in NE. NYC market access for Mount Snow is something Vail would be hesitant to give up for slightly smaller crowds over the holidays.
Vail's actual ownership of all these areas makes the comparison on of the Epic vs Ikon passes not true apples to apples. The Epic Local gets you unlimited to Hunter, Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, Sunapee, and Crotched. That is a lot of choice, with only Stowe restricted. Compared to the Ikon Base being limited to 5 days and holiday restrictions, unless you visit Tremblant.
Resorts want holidays as swamped as possible.
Stowe is the restricted location for Epic Local. Then you would need to debate how to prioritize Okemo vs Mount Snow if you wanted to add a second restricted location in NE. NYC market access for Mount Snow is something Vail would be hesitant to give up for slightly smaller crowds over the holidays.
Vail's actual ownership of all these areas makes the comparison on of the Epic vs Ikon passes not true apples to apples. The Epic Local gets you unlimited to Hunter, Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, Sunapee, and Crotched. That is a lot of choice, with only Stowe restricted. Compared to the Ikon Base being limited to 5 days and holiday restrictions, unless you visit Tremblant.
Mt. Snow doesn't want those guns, Wrong kind.
At present, Vail nor Mt Snow has shown interest in operations at "The Stack", aka "club dread"
With the Forest service plan to develop back country skiing on "the ridge", my guess is Haystack will see significant foot traffic both up and down. (all by trespassers ;-)
Really. Mt. Snow seems to have a variety of snow guns (fixed, portable, fans, high efficiency). Didn't realize they were married to one particular type.
I was just thinking that Haystack could help them thin the crowds a bit while also offering some higher-end/higher-margin offering through the Hermitage amenities. Note that many Hermitage members also held season passes at Mt. Snow. Put another way, there is some number of people who purchase passes to ski at Mt. Snow who were also willing and able to pay tens of thousands of additional dollars for Hermitage membership, dues, spa treatments, house accounts, etc. (Some of them were even willing to pay for a chairlift.) There are people with money, looking for ways to spend in on a luxury experience while/after skiing at Mt. Snow. Mt. Snow doesn't offer many of these opportunities but the Hermitage Club amenities could.
I skinned up Haystack once last season and, while the crust was too hard to be fun coming down, being on a network of cut trails with nobody around is pretty cool.
Agreed. Mt. Snow has been the cash cow for a number of owners over the years. Yes, it was one of Peak Resort's Premier properties but that's mostly because the majority of the other properties were much smaller in scale. Yes, it's a destination resort but it's also close enough to NYC and Boston (and NJ, CT, Long Island, Westchester) to get a lot of day trips. There are plenty of attributes (great snowmaking, great terrain park) but the biggest one has always been proximity. There are tens of millions of people for whom Mt. Snow is the closest full scale/full service winter resort. The result is huge crowds on holidays and just about every weekend and their business model hinges on this. I don't see them doing anything to cut down on the crowds.
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The guns are going to some of the smaller ski areas
They are going to the smaller mid-Atlantic resorts, such as Liberty, Roundtop, etc.
Looks like there are offers in place setting things up for an auction next month. $4 million for the ski resort, golf club, 3 hotels and some real estate properties. $3.5 million for the bubble lift. I guess the numbers will go up from here at auction but these numbers reinforce how the various interested parties, in looking out for themselves made it worse for everybody. There seems to be a member group interested in buying and re-opening the resort. There may be another investor interested in doing this as well. But they've already sold off the snow making equipment and the lift might get sold separately as well. How much less is the resort worth no snowmaking equipment and no summit lift? I imagine a lot less. If, in fact, some entity has interest in trying to operate the resort again, it's worth a whole lot more to them intact than if key components have been sold off separately. Everything would have been worth so much more (and the lenders would have been made more whole) had someone been able to get the parties to cooperate.
www.saminfo.com
Bidders Emerge for Hermitage Club Assets - Ski Area Management
SAM Magazine—Wilmington, VT., Jan. 22, 2020—The former Hermitage Club, a private ski area and golf club in southern Vermont that’s been shut down since 2018 due to foreclosure, has received two separate offers totaling roughly $7.5 million for its assets, possibly beginning an auction process...
www.saminfo.com
Thanks for posting the link! But I think your conclusion's off-base... if there's an investor or group out there that honestly values the resort + bubble lift at so much more than $7.5 million, all they need to do is show up with the money. And maybe it'll happen... but my guess is the final price tags aren't going to be too different from these stalking horse bids because no one with that kind of cash really sees much value in keeping Haystack open.