Heritage of current boot brands

[Ken_R]

Yes, I owned a pair of Dynafit alpine boots when I was somewhere between 12-14. Its unique feature was that the forward flex was controlled by a spring (or rubber block depending on the model) rather than the boot plastic. This made the boots' stiffness much more predictable in different temperatures. I'll see if I can find any pics.

The Internet to the rescue...

This boot was way ahead of its time. Adjustable forward lean, forward flex, and cuff alignment (canting). It even had a pseudo walk mechanism to allow the cuff to be more upright with the flip of a lever.

That is so so darn cool. Awesome to be able to make the boot stiffer or softer by swapping springs.

 

[James]

Snowboarders, hard booters, do this now. I think. Not positive it's lean and flex, maybe. They buy alpine boots and mount rods and springs on the back. Several years ago I sold a pair of Lange za's to one. I asked him, why do you want this boot, do you want just the liners? It was cheap. He sent me photos of hard booters who do this mod. There's a guy in Maine who had some stuff online about it. The guy I sold to thought the za's were stiff as hell once he got them. I laughed and told him don't ever buy some zc's then.

 

[cantunamunch]

http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/BTS-Kit_p_106.html

 

[crgildart]

Munari??

 

[Uncle-A]

Yes, I owned a pair of Dynafit alpine boots when I was somewhere between 12-14. Its unique feature was that the forward flex was controlled by a spring (or rubber block depending on the model) rather than the boot plastic. This made the boots' stiffness much more predictable in different temperatures. I'll see if I can find any pics.

The Internet to the rescue...

This boot was way ahead of its time. Adjustable forward lean, forward flex, and cuff alignment (canting). It even had a pseudo walk mechanism to allow the cuff to be more upright with the flip of a lever.

The last shop I worked sold Dynafit boots and they seemed to have a thinner plastic shells than other boot manufacturers causing a softer more flexible shell. The last of the boot seemed wider than other boots as well. I don't remember the models but I think the choice of colors was linked to the Blizzard skis of the same season. It was surprising how boot model and the ski color matched. Not sure if they worked together at the time but it was the late 1980's and companies were starting to link ski, boot, and binding under one brand.

 

[KingGrump]

That is so so darn cool. Awesome to be able to make the boot stiffer or softer by swapping springs.

It sounds good in theory. I practice - not so much.
most boots we had in the 800's had all sorts of doo-dad on the boots for adjustments and what not. Most of the ones on my boots usually get trashed. Usually, we just grind off the gizmo and replace it with couple rivets.

 

[Posaune]

We have a whole forum dedicated to the hystorical aspect of gear, you should check it out....

This post is in the forum you are recommending. It seems @jmeb WAS checking it out.

 

[skipress]

Only the race boots. The recreational boots are very different creatures even if in the same corporate group.

Yes quite right only the race shells. There's a more consistent identity/look through the other Lange models whereas the other Rossi models are quite diferent.

I was going to ask about Trappeur. God, I had a pair in the late 70's. Incredibly heavy. Probably 1-2 sizes too big. As a teenager, wth did I know?
Eventually replaced with Lange Tii, which felt much, much lighter.
It was this one. That metal rod was like 5/16 thick. They don't even look lime they fit Killy in the calf.
I think eventually they were trashed boot hitching behind a car at at nearly 50mph. Wore the soles down.

View attachment 72006
I talked to someone who was at the Lange factory not that long ago. They considered Lange an Italian boot. The origins of Bob Lange totally gone.

Aye - though last year's workbook [I think last years, might need to check] had a sort of homage to Mr Lange, though I suspect in the English speaking world only.

As to Trappeur, at the time of the Rossi purchase, before the awful R900 was unveiled people thought that they might launch something serious. There was a nervous joke in Salomon 'what do you call a cross between a Caber and a Trappeur... a cr@pper. Now stop laughing and pointing at pictures of the Salomon Integral

Looking at that image Killy is probably counting the zeros on the cheque......

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler ... did you notice any difference in your boots after you dyed them black?

I don't know exactly because I never skied the B2 RD (150 flex) before dyeing it black. What I can say is that it is significantly stiffer (more responsive) than my B3 RD (130 flex). I would be quite surprised if the dyeing changed the flex all that much. However, I have heard from a few industry people "in the know" that there is absolutely a reason why some boots are the colors they are due to the plastic types used. There is a difference in the characteristics of some of the plastics depending on the color, but this is a discussion for another thread...

 

[jmeb]

This post is in the forum you are recommending. It seems @jmeb WAS checking it out.

To be fair, just got to it via new posts.

Then I drank a solid 3 fingers of bourbon while reading it

 

[Noodler]

That is so so darn cool. Awesome to be able to make the boot stiffer or softer by swapping springs.

This model actually just had an adjustment screw to "preload" the spring to change the flex. Dynafit had some other models that had different color rubber blocks. Each color was a different stiffness and you had to swap the blocks to change the flex.

 

[Noodler]

It sounds good in theory. I practice - not so much.
most boots we had in the 800's had all sorts of doo-dad on the boots for adjustments and what not. Most of the ones on my boots usually get trashed. Usually, we just grind off the gizmo and replace it with couple rivets.

I like doo-dads...

I wish some manufacturer would revisit providing more adjustability while keeping the boot performance and functionality high. Give us more cuff alignment adjustment range and at least some forward lean adjustment that actually works without sacrificing the smoothness of the flex (or creating a catastrophe with the rearward flex).

 

[Ross Biff]

Yes, I owned a pair of Dynafit alpine boots when I was somewhere between 12-14. Its unique feature was that the forward flex was controlled by a spring (or rubber block depending on the model) rather than the boot plastic. This made the boots' stiffness much more predictable in different temperatures. I'll see if I can find any pics.

The Internet to the rescue...

This boot was way ahead of its time. Adjustable forward lean, forward flex, and cuff alignment (canting). It even had a pseudo walk mechanism to allow the cuff to be more upright with the flip of a lever.

This boot was on the feet of quite a few DH racers in the 80s, notably the Swiss icon Peter Mueller. I had a pair in the early 80s, attracted by the bells and whistles! Never got them to fit well unfortunately.

 

[skipress]

This boot was on the feet of quite a few DH racers in the 80s, notably the Swiss icon Peter Mueller. I had a pair in the early 80s, attracted by the bells and whistles! Never got them to fit well unfortunately.

They were very popular at retail in Europe:

• They looked racey and lots of DH athletes used them
• They were very adjustable so you could make them work for wanabees with cash or fairly serious skiers
• Bells and whistles had shelf appeal and lots to talk about.
• Walk mode
• They were pretty high volume, so your own experience notwithstanding they were frequently a quick out of the box [ok-ish] fit and easy high margin sell
• There were a lot of foam versions sold [not always a good match with a high volume shell]

They were probably on the market for way too long, there was a later horrible looking white pink and yellow version then a really terrible redesign that also lasted for too long. Skied badly with buckles that combined difficulty to use and fragility..you have to try to hit that bar.

From http://hutimgo.pw/Dynafit-3F-Sports.html who seems to have a really scarey love of Dynafits...

 

[Uncle-A]

However, I have heard from a few industry people "in the know" that there is absolutely a reason why some boots are the colors they are due to the plastic types used. There is a difference in the characteristics of some of the plastics depending on the color, but this is a discussion for another thread...

I would like to see the science behind that information.

 

[Uncle-A]

I like doo-dads...

I wish some manufacturer would revisit providing more adjustability while keeping the boot performance and functionality high. Give us more cuff alignment adjustment range and at least some forward lean adjustment that actually works without sacrificing the smoothness of the flex (or creating a catastrophe with the rearward flex).

As if boot fitting isn't difficult enough, that more doo-dads are added. :-(

 

[James]

The Salomon SX 92 rear entry has tons of doo-dads as I understand it related to fit and flex. I think if you know how to use them, they might be beneficial. But, I don't know. I just hear from someone who still skis them about their properties.

 

[Noodler]

As if boot fitting isn't difficult enough, that more doo-dads are added. :-(

Are we talking about booting fitting (actual issues with the fit) or boot stance alignment? My discussion was regarding stance alignment features.

 

[Noodler]

I would like to see the science behind that information.

Please don't misinterpret what was stated. It's not that the same plastic in red or black is different, but rather that the different formulations of the plastic types are only available in certain colors. For example, I have been told that the type of white plastic used for the current Head Raptors are white for a reason. Now this may be totally bogus (and @Philpug could weigh in), but I believe that there probably is something to this.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The manufactures usually buy their plastics unpigmented and add color masterbatch to obtain the color required.

These can alter the properties of the plastic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterbatch White masterbatch contains titanium dioxide which is known to catalyze the UV degradation of plastics, which is why the Raptors turn yellow. Black masterbatch contains carbon black which inhibits UV degradation.

Many of the brands past and present didn’t / don’t make their own ski boots, there has always been a massive amount of sub-contracting. Atomic / Salomon have all their boots manufactured by a sub-contractor in Romania https://www.plastor.ro/en/products-and-technology/finished-goods-subcontracting/