Helping a skier sliding down out of control?

[Muleski]

Doug Coombs death, I will respectively say, had nothing to do with the kind of skiing that 99.999% of us will ever encounter. If you are curious, Google it. He basically was sideslipping, in hurry on a solid rock spine to see if he could see and then help his friend. Friend had lost his edges on a sheet of hidden ice, in the narrow couloir they were skiing, fell, shot up and over a spine and fell off a cliff 500 feet to his death. Coombs then fell as well. Awful.

The parallel is that Coombs likely thought that he was taking no, or minimal, risk in grabbing the rope and investigating the fall. And that proved to not be the case, even with his immense skill, experience and judgement.

We have a friend, a good friend of Doug's and Emily's, who used to spend a couple of months or so in that part of the Alps. That accident caused him to re-think his skiing. He had two very young children. No more "no fall" zones. As he told me, plenty of places to ski without risking a life. He guided there for another five or six years, and was smart about it.

It was a sad event. However, check out the Doug Coombs Foundation in Jackson, WY. Does great community work in his memory. Run by his wife. It's a neat legacy.

I think the pole plant thing sounds problematic. Having watched somebody bleed out on a hill with a severed femoral artery, I have a hard time getting my arms around that technique. A snapped pole can be a dangerous weapon. And in my experience on a lot of surfaces where somebody is sliding fast, they are so hard that jamming a pole tip into the "snow" is really hard. Have a hard time visualizing it.
In my one adult incident, I can imagine snapping both poles, and possibly having some serious lower body injury.

This guy had serious monentum. Doesn't make sense to me, trying to stand still and stop it. That sounds scary.

Hope I never have to think about it.....

 

[crgildart]

Watching him ski that frozen water fall in Aspen Extreme was amazing. However, after about the 3rd hop turn there was no stopping and had there been bad exposure below well, we know..

Very tragic, he died trying to help someone that was in a very dangerous spot. What he felt or believed about the level of risk related to his abilities when making the decision and trying to get down there we will never know. What the actual level of risk was became obvious to all.

Again, I hope my friends make the call to avoid high risk to save me in these situations.

For kids you can safely get below or slow moving adults, I also advocate the reverse fishbone and DROP the poles, Have your leather covered hands ready to protect yourself from their poles and metal edges.

 

[skibob]

I've stopped my son skiing backwards in front of him, but very mild slope and he was tiny at the time (~35 LBS).

But last year I was on a fairly steep and moderately icy slope when I was passed by a ~12 year old sitting on the back of his skis and screaming. He wasn't headed toward anything dangerous, other than other skiers. I yelled "Fall sideways!!". And he did. A spectacular wipeout too. So much so, I felt kinda guilty thinking he could be hurt. But when I stopped to bring down a ski he lost, he said "thank you--for the advice, and the ski". He was fine. I said, "take a lesson please. That was dangerous for everybody else too, not just you."

 

[Monique]

I believe I read in a mountaineering book that you have a second or two to dig in your ice axe before you're going too fast to be effective in self-arrest. My most terrifying slide was as an intermediate at Solitude in Utah. Mid 1990s and straight skis. I didn't think I was ever going to stop. Quickly learned that poles and skis are mostly useless. Hope I never have an experience like that again.

 

[crgildart]

Well, there are techniques taught about grabbing a pole at the bottom just above the basked and using that to self arrest. Easier said than done when tumbling. Folks that ski extreme terrain use poles with little pick axe heads sticking out of the handles for both climbing and emergency self arrest AKA falling!


I have no discrete plans to intentionally venture anywhere where that kind of gear is recommended. Sleet and refrozen ice can get you anywhere though. Usually the patrols are good at discouraging folks from getting in terrain that hasn't at least been groomed down to death cookies.

 

[Monique]

Well, there are techniques taught about grabbing a pole at the bottom just above the basked and suing that to self arrest. Easier said than done when tumbling. Folks that ski extreme terrain use poles with little pick axe heads sticking out of the handles for both climbing and emergency self arrest AKA falling!

Yes. Sorry, my post implied that you're just screwed with no hope, and that's not what I think. But it is very hard to do it right and quickly, and I don't think it's a guarantee. As an intermediate skier who mostly skied the east coast at that point, I had no chance.

 

[pais alto]

The best way to deal with this is before the incident - teach/learn self arrest. I can't categorically recommend getting in front of someone sliding out of control because of the very real possibility (or even probability) of there soon being two people sliding out of control. I suppose size matters, you have a better chance helping a child if you are a grown-up. Sticking your poles in the snow in front of an out of control adult is a good way to get taken out and break your poles.

Learn self arrest, make sure your loved ones learn it. Practice it. The probability is strong that if someone that has been trained and practiced in self arrest can't stop, then there isn't really anything a bystander can do to help without becoming part of the disaster.

 

[scott43]

I find it disturbing that someone would not try to stop a fellow skier that's falling towards a certain death.

I get the sentiment..I would be thinking about it for sure..if I could do something without mortal danger to myself, maybe I'll try? But I have a toddler. If there's any chance of serious danger to me, I'm sending flowers to the funeral. I didn't put that person in harm's way, they did.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Plummeting toward certain death? Yeah, that doesn't happen too often, I suppose in that case maybe you'd want to try and swoop in and make the tackle. But in most cases, I think you are just as likely to hurt them. I'm just picturing a kid hurtling down the trail, person tried to stop them, gets feet knocked out and falls on them, adding more mass to the impending crash.

 

[oldschoolskier]

One of the things about rescue is understanding the risk points.

In getting below anything that is falling, is an accident/injury waiting to happen, kid or adult. The least risk is from above even if it's as simple as extending a pole to grab onto and you slow the gently (space permitting) bringing them to a stop. Once you have them focused on you above they actually become controllable (and may self arrest). At worst you let go of your pole if problems arise, or you injure them. I vaguely remember read this described somewhere years ago.

Remember first rule mentioned in an earlier post. At least you don't become part of the sliding mass.

 

[Read Blinn]

Well, there are techniques taught about grabbing a pole at the bottom just above the basket and using that to self arrest.

Sleet and refrozen ice can get you anywhere though. Usually the patrols are good at discouraging folks from getting in terrain that hasn't at least been groomed down to death cookies.

As I said, this happened to me last spring — more funny than dangerous, and it happened under spring conditions, not on ice. I was arcing down the smooth center of Liftline at Stowe, bordered by bump fields I wasn't skilled enough to ski. At one point my arc took me too close to the moguls, and I found myself turning suddenly uphill to avoid a bump. Of course I went down, losing one ski, and I started sliding and laughing, expecting any moment to slow to a stop. That didn't happen. I wasn't worried — even the bumps were slushy soft — but I was running fast away from the ski, which Tony had collected, and I was feeling more and more like a jerk; the farther I slid, the farther he'd have to carry that ski. So, recalling what I'd seen on self-arrest, and still laughing, I grabbed a pole under its basket and jammed it into the snow. It went in fine, but it didn't hold, and I kept sliding, trailing a wet dark line behind me. Well, this is stupid, I thought, so I leaned harder and harder onto that basket. And harder. Eventually I slowed enough to come to rest against a mound of slush.

At no point was I in actual danger, of course. I may have been a hazard to someone else, though, and I was wary of digging the edge of my ski into the slope at speed (a tumble wouldn't have been good). I can see, though, that, under other circumstances, perhaps other conditions, even an inbounds fall on a relatively steep pitch could have serious consequences, pure ice or not.

 

[Core2]

Late to this thread but if I see someone falling out of control all I will do is sit back and watch and enjoy the show. I guarantee you they are learning their lesson (the hard way) without me intervening. Now with that said I will always stop my run to help someone pick up their yard sale items and ask if they are OK.

 

[Monique]

Late to this thread but if I see someone falling out of control all I will do is sit back and watch and enjoy the show. I guarantee you they are learning their lesson (the hard way) without me intervening. Now with that said I will always stop my run to help someone pick up their yard sale items and ask if they are OK.

Tell me, what's the lesson?

 

[Core2]

Tell me, what's the lesson?

Don't ski terrain that is above your ability.

 

[Core2]

Or better yet, don't drag your friends or kids down a run that is above their ability so you can "teach" them how to be better skiers. Sometimes you have bad luck on a ski day but most of the time you do dumb shit that leads to a bad fall.

 

[Core2]

Feel free to argue with my above comments. I welcome it. Everyone here is a self proclaimed skiing internet forum skiing expert so I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Crank]

I might intervene to help a kid, but if I witness a full grown adult sliding down a slope steep enough to not be able to stop I will just do my best to stay out of their way. No sense in my getting taken out as well.

 

[Monique]

Feel free to argue with my above comments. I welcome it. Everyone here is a self proclaimed skiing internet forum skiing expert so I wouldn't expect anything less.

Wow, okay.

It must be nice never to make a mistake. Let me know what that's like, will ya?

 

[Mike Thomas]

I have a really really good friend who was involved in what I consider the most horrific ski accident that I know of. I don't want to go into too much detail as the story is not mine to share, but a quick over view (and at the end a point that might be relevant)- my friend and his best friend decided to go on a backcountry ski tour during a stretch of bad weather, they knew the skiing was bad so the mission was 'go for a walk and check stuff out for when the conditions improve' they tour into the line they wanted to look at and are shocked to find beautiful windbuff and what looks like excellent conditions, not the ice they anticipated. They talk about it for a while and decide to give it a go...

My friend drops in and ski cuts the line, snow feels good so he proceeds with a second turn, which is where everything went sideways. The entire slope rips loose and he is left standing on glacial ice with a choice- 700 feet of technical skiing on a surface that is unskiable or attempt to put crampons on and climb out. He tries the later but after affixing one crampon he loses his edge grip and goes for a slide. My friend is injured horribly in the fall, broken skull, broken back, shattered pelvis, broken shoulder blade and broken leg... then things got worse.

His friend, his best friend, is alone at the top of the chute and tries to come to his aid. We'll never know exactly what happened but he also fell and he was killed in the fall. My friend was found by ice climbers and a group of college outing club members who were able to stabilize him and get help.. There isn't a day that goes by that the memory of his friend and the guilt that his friend lost his life trying to help him doesn't haunt him.

Becoming part of the problem is no solution, sometimes your best course of action is to regroup and deal with the aftermath of the fall, getting in the middle usually is bad for everyone.

 

[Philpug]

@Alexzn and I were skiing with @Susie at Squaw and a 8" diameter 5lb rock rolled off of the Palisades and hit her hard enough to hurt her arm and she had to be taken down in a sled and that was just a rock...rolling. If it was a 150-200lb skier "out of control" in that situation, she would have been much worse off.