This is what I keep thinking. I guess the thing to do is recognize such conditions and just don't let them fall. I'm not criticizing the OP, at all, because I realize even being there was an accident. I think once I was there, with kids or any other less-seasoned skier, I would stop them before trying to descend and explain what to do with their edges, and explain what to do if they fall, urge them to not ski above possible dangerous obstacles, just mitigate whatever you can before things get real. I have a hard time picturing myself stopping anyone's slide without getting taken out myself.
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Helping a skier sliding down out of control?
- Thread starter Mendieta
- Start date
This is what I keep thinking. I guess the thing to do is recognize such conditions and just don't let them fall. I'm not criticizing the OP, at all, because I realize even being there was an accident. I think once I was there, with kids or any other less-seasoned skier, I would stop them before trying to descend and explain what to do with their edges, and explain what to do if they fall, urge them to not ski above possible dangerous obstacles, just mitigate whatever you can before things get real. I have a hard time picturing myself stopping anyone's slide without getting taken out myself.
A kid is possible — I caught a small sixth grade girl as she was falling face first down a stairway last year. She lay absolutely still in my arms as I laid into the horde of descending middle schoolers who'd accidentally pushed her.
It's hard to stop a sliding adult, though, as everyone points out. It can be hard to stop yourself, even knowing (theoretically) self-arrest techniques. I found that out myself last spring. It takes serious effort.
It's hard to stop a sliding adult, though, as everyone points out. It can be hard to stop yourself, even knowing (theoretically) self-arrest techniques. I found that out myself last spring. It takes serious effort.
I also can't picture myself doing it intentionally. But in times of crisis, I've done things that I don't remember choosing to do. I kicked a mastiff at the dog park who was slowly grabbing more and more of my dog's ruff. I don't remember the part between staring in horror and then my knee impacting the dog's butt. Fortunately , she snapped out of it, stopped attacking my dog, and didn't make a move toward me. My knee was bruised the next day, so I hit her pretty hard. But getting involved in a dog fight ? That is not something I remember choosing.
LOL. This was years ago. Unrelated to current trauma.
Worst is being anywhere near a gunfight or dogfight in the first place.
I hope to avoid this.
For sure. I think that's sort of the disconnect in a thread asking about tactics. In such cases, I think instinct takes over, and I think it's usually going to be correct. Some 250lb-er hurtling out of control down a mountain? Yeah, you get out of the way. A little kid who you might be able to snatch? Yeah, you try. Every case will be different.
First rule of rescue, don't endanger yourself. Second rule, don't endanger other rescuers.
I think that's it. You make a quick judgement call and react. I have done it over the years with small kids. When our daughter was almost four she was a pretty decent tot on skis. She was starting to ski parallel, but would revert to the wedge in tougher stuff. We were skiing with her on a trail that's always groomed, and has a decent pitch. Later in the afternoon. We accessed the lower two-thirds via a traverse through the woods. Done it with her a ton, and she loved that adventure.
We THOUGHT we'd talk to her as we exited the woods and stopped on the trail. Nope. She just took off. Trail was all skied off and rock hard. She made an attempt at a turn or two, then got into the comfy wedge, and was going right down the fall line. Wedge got wider, and butt lower. Pretty soon no skis on snow, sliding on her butt and back. I guess the edges were creating some friction.
I guess I saw this unfolding. I don't recall it. I do recall making a few huge SG size turns and swoopping in to stop and quickly catch her. She was tiny. No impact. Pretty easy. Then of course as I caught my breath we turned it into what a fun slide, and how to stop. Let's get a hot chocolate. And agreed to be smarter parents. My wife was not pleased. We have plenty of experience to know better, and she is our youngest. Basically having any kid that age on that trail with those conditions was dumb.
Years later, about a year after a family friend had been paralyzed in a fall, hitting a lift tower, I was on a pretty steep trial, also just buffed, and I saw a guy in a free fall slide. Not doing a thing to slow it, no poles, no trying to roll to get an edge or boot buckle to dig in. Nothing. I think I wondered if he was knocked out. I quickly saw his path headed right toward a lift tower and a huge concrete pad. "Padded", but not great. So I did the same thing. I don't remember a thing, really. My wife says I timed it to ski right into him across the fall line, kept my skis under me, kind of flopped onto him and hugged him, and my momentum, I guess steered us quite away across the hill as we stopped.
I was really amped up, and scared afterwards. This guy was terrified. Had NEVER been taught how to self arrest in a fall, and was in over his head. His friends had encouraged him that he would be fine on this trail, "as it doesn't have bumps." Bumps would have immediately slowed hIm. Somebody had called patrol, and I guess they helped after that. I was very lucky not to have been injured myself. If I hadn't done the quick calculus of the tower, and I guess processed the slide, I would probably have let him slide until he stopped. No harm unless there is impact.
A few years ago we saw a guy in a long slide out West. We were far above him. Very wide terrain, nothing to hit. We watched him slide maybe 500 ft before he stopped, and he was sliding long before that. We skied by him; had a bunch of people with him. Looked like he was fine. I'd assume over his head. No fresh snow in over two weeks.
I don't know what I would do now, at 60+ in a similar situation. Hope I never have to find out. I think I would absoluteky swoop in to catch any child. Big guy....not so sure. Probably not. Hope somebody else younger might.
But yeah...no tactics to be learned in this.
The way to stop a falling skier:
Stand in his path, stick your poles firmly in the snow. The skier will likely break then, but this will slow him down enough to be able to stop him entirely.
I've seen this in action in France and it saved a skier from a certain death on an icy run in val d'isere.
Stand in his path, stick your poles firmly in the snow. The skier will likely break then, but this will slow him down enough to be able to stop him entirely.
I've seen this in action in France and it saved a skier from a certain death on an icy run in val d'isere.
I think it depends on how big/fast they are sliding and what fate awaits them should they not be intercepted. It they're a slow but steady skid towards a cliff, rocks, trees, other fixed obstacles go ahead and try to get downhill and deflect them if you can. If they're skidding fast but where they are heading flattens out without much exposure, just let them go and meet them at the bottom. If they're barreling fast towards danger and you are not sure you can save them at all without high risk of also getting hurt yourself you are not helping anything trying to be a hero there..
I find it disturbing that someone would not try to stop a fellow skier that's falling towards a certain death.
If they're a big person, traveling fast, and I'm not sure I can get there without also ending up dead I'm not going for it and don't expect you to try that on my account either. A little kid that you're fairly sure you can intercept before the impending doom I've done before and will do again.
That's why I don't think I would ever do it again. I just don't know. I would not advise it. When I had my one adult "save", I was younger, stronger and real strong on my skis. Probably though my Superman cape was under my shell. And we were lucky.
I also think the person sliding on a smooth hill, with some space to work with might be the difference maker. Two of you ripping into trees or rocks? No thanks.
Didn't Doug Coombs die trying to help someone else that fell in a no fall zone? I know he wasn't trying to intercept mid fall but still took a giant risk that resulted in two dead people instead of one dead person. Sometimes you have to let tragedy play out unfortunately rather than taking a big risk that could make it even worse.
A little kid can be stopped for sure. I've done it more than once. Definitely not an adult sliding fast. But this idea of the poles seems reasonable. Of course the chances that you are below them, near enough to their path to do this and do it in time are pretty slim. Still, quick thinking could help slow someone down.
Thread Starter
TS
Oh dear. yes!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/sports/othersports/doug-coombs-48-skier-dies-in-accident.html
Rest in Peace, Dough, you died a hero.
Thread Starter
TS
This is exactly what I'm hoping in this thread. To discuss what can be done, and when, both in terms of tactics and technique. I'm sure we all agree it's best if the slide doesn't happen, but we all know that shit happens. This thread is about what to do when the shit hits the fan.
So, how does this work? You stick the poles to support you and you keep your body for the other person to crash you?
Thank you, @Muleski , four your stories above. A lot to learn from them, and thank God you were there for those saves!
I'm not sold on the idea of planting your poles and holding on to them to block an adult sliding at you out of control. Sounds like the perfect formula for a jagged broken pole liver or femoral artery laceration.
As the poles break the jagged ends could impale the person standing there leaning on them.
As the poles break the jagged ends could impale the person standing there leaning on them.
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