Helping a skier sliding down out of control?

[Mendieta]

This is perhaps more of a Ski Patrol question ( @Philpug , @Tricia , should we have a subforum for that?)

Last year, we took the wrong run (a steep wide blue that due to a change in wind froze like a rock). My son and I were ok, but my daughter (who was 9 and with limited experience at the time) freaked out, fell on her back, started sliding down, not very fast, but she couldn't stop. I yelled from behind, for her to open her arms to drag the ice, which she did, and soon she came to a stop. It felt like a hundred years.

Living in the frivolous-lawsuit-happy society we live in (at least for us in the States), I would imagine that this question only matters in relation to friends and family members in such a situation. But is there anything one could do to stop a person in such a situation? I would imagine it is easier with kids because they are light? (For a second I thought of skiing downhill and waiting for her to crash me, but I she stopped before I could decide whether it was a good idea).

Thanks!

 

[Eleeski]

Similar situation with my son when he was very little. Sliding down out of control towards a cliff. I chased him but was unable to get to him. A Samaritan caught him (anonymous thanks, there are many good people). For kids, a catch or block is not that difficult. Definitely worth the effort.

As skiers, the situational awareness we practice (right?!) also needs to include dangers to others that we can mitigate. Obviously you should not put yourself in harm's way (and compound the problem) but reasonable assistance can do great things. No reasonable judge or jury will punish sincere efforts to help. It might be worse to withhold assistance.

I appreciate the guy who saved my kid and try to repay in kind when the situation arises.

Eric

 

[cantunamunch]

Living in the frivolous-lawsuit-happy society we live on (at least for us in the States), I would imagine that this question only matters in relation to friends and family members in such a situation. But is there anything one could do to stop a person in such a situation? I would imagine it is easier with kids because they are light? (For a second I thought of skiing downhill and waiting for her to crash me, but I she stopped before I could decide whether it was a good idea).
Thanks!

That's exactly what I did with my nephew - ski underneath, turn uphill and V out the skis into a herringbone - reverse snowplow. It stopped him; I got an edge cut in the pants and on the shin out of it. I was very glad he didn't slide into the mogul field so worth it I suppose.

I was actually below him when he fell - there is no way I could have done it starting from above.

 

[scott43]

I often think of this question when swimming. Having grown up on the water and had my bronze star way back when, I often wonder what I'd do if someone was in trouble. There are risks, litigious and otherwise.. I've averted the odd tragedy but nothing really serious. The panicky adult male is the obvious problem. But yeah, ya gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. I would never risk my own life though unfortunately (for the other person..). Rule #1, never endanger the life savers.

 

[Yo Momma]

I often think of this question when swimming. Having grown up on the water and had my bronze star way back when, I often wonder what I'd do if someone was in trouble. There are risks, litigious and otherwise.. I've averted the odd tragedy but nothing really serious. The panicky adult male is the obvious problem. But yeah, ya gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. I would never risk my own life though unfortunately (for the other person..). Rule #1, never endanger the life savers.

Interesting ........... on water it's seems???? that another set of rules kick in that are less litigious, and more universally accepted as standard operating procedure when it comes to safety and rescue........ not sure just seems that way........ what have you found?

 

[crgildart]

In the water a panicking adult can bring down even the best swimmer trying to rescue them. Life guards don't even engage close enough to be grabbed. They swim out then toss the flailing person a float on a rope to cling to then drag them back by the rope.

It's like saying best not ski off a cliff to try to rescue someone that skied off a cliff, throw them a rope instead.

 

[scott43]

Interesting ........... on water it's seems???? that another set of rules kick in that are less litigious, and more universally accepted as standard operating procedure when it comes to safety and rescue........ not sure just seems that way........ what have you found?

No experience. I've just been involved in a few things with friends and family, all turned out well. But it's always in the back of my mind. I'm not really current on any first aid or life guarding so I have no idea what the protocol is these days. No idea what the litigation might be. But I do wonder. Like seeing a motorcycle accident and wanting to help. What could come from that? Here in Canada I think the legal aspect is probably not as serious, but it sucks that you have to think about it when you're trying to do a good deed.

 

[scott43]

In the water a panicking adult can bring down even the best swimmer trying to rescue them. Life guards don't even engage close enough to be grabbed. They swim out then toss the flailing person a float on a rope to cling to then drag them back by the rope.

It's like saying best not ski off a cliff to try to rescue someone that skied off a cliff, throw them a rope instead.

Yeah, sorry, if you're flailing, we're going to plan B.

 

[Monique]

There's an instructor at Breck who used to compete in extreme skiing stuff. He still skis like that pretty much everywhere, these huge sweeping GS turns no matter the terrain. One of his adult students fell in early season and was sliding toward exposed grass and rocks on a double black bowl. The instructor apparently swept down and managed to get below and stop the fall.

At least, that's what I hear. I have to admit I didn't witness it (or participate in it!).

I don't recommend it for mere mortals, though.

 

[Eleeski]

@Mendieta It was a long time ago. I don't remember exactly. He might have blocked my son or grabbed his jacket. He was positioned well so the stop was technically no big deal. The episode was no big deal because of the save - at least we played it that way to not freak out our kid. The snow was soft so the cliff probably would not have been disastrous but parents don't like to see that kind of thing.

A lifeguard friend of mine was watching the pool from next to the high dive. A little girl slipped off and fell into his arms. Awesome save! Good thing he wasn't sitting in the lifeguard chair.

Just do the right thing.

Eric

 

[Mendieta]

That's exactly what I did with my nephew - ski underneath, turn uphill and V out the skis into a herringbone - reverse snowplow. It stopped him; I got an edge cut in the pants and on the shin out of it. I was very glad he didn't slide into the mogul field so worth it I suppose.

I was actually below him when he fell - there is no way I could have done it starting from above.

You are awesome. How did you place your skis, in that herringbone? Were they downhill, supporting you, as you faced the boy uphill? Or rather uphill from you, so you could use them to crash skis against skis? It seems like it was the latter, given your injuries.

 

[Yo Momma]

You are awesome. .

Actually, shhh......... he's Batman...........

 

[oldschoolskier]

My feeling is the confidence that you have in your ability and training that lets you do these things. It is not always the strongest best skier that does this, but the one that believes the risk save is the right thing to do and has some knowledge to do the right thing.

Luckily I have not been in the position required to do this (but I would and have in other situations) but I have been in the position to prevent a few of these from happening in skiing (lucky foresight).

Congrats to those that do either.

 

[Tico]

From a professional standpoint, in order of importance, in no fall terrain:

Manage the terrain (primary selection)
Manage the terrain (ultimate hazard)
Manage the terrain (pitch length, communication, coaching)
Technical systems
Self arrest

Kind of a non-answer. But frankly, if you're thinking of trying to stop some hot ragdoll action, you've already made a series of mistakes.

 

[cantunamunch]

How did you place your skis, in that herringbone? Were they downhill, supporting you, as you faced the boy uphill?

Yes to this - I was standing right on top of them and then squeezed my knees in (and slightly uphill I suppose), hockey goalie style.

 

[Mendieta]

Yes to this - I was standing right on top of them and then squeezed my knees in (and slightly uphill I suppose), hockey goalie style.

Oh, and he hit you with the skis. Thanks!

 

[Alexzn]

Its almost impossible to stop a rag dolling adult. However, as a falling adult its important not to lose the mind and try to self-arrest in any way possible.

 

[oldschoolskier]

What I find is that a lot (though not all, some are just accidental) of potential out of control skiers are brought into areas by skiers without enough experience to get them down through said area or leave them because they are too slow. Just being aware that this happens and helping a bit can prevent a lot of dangerous problems.

In case of the OP's post this is accidental, but a lot aren't.

 

[fatbob]

I like to think I would just get myself under a kid heading for serious hazard and take the hit kinda regardless of personal consequences. I've certainly positioned myself for that a couple of times.

As for long slides - they happen. I had a slip on a very icy early morning steep groomer (spring overnight refreeze) in France and although I was in no danger I could only slow speed of travel rather than arrest with my edges. That occasion I was rather more concerned about the man and child who remained rooted directly in my slow slide path before begrudgingly shuffling a couple of feet sideways.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Personally, I think it's nuts to try and stop an out of control skier. Maybe in rare circumstances, but I think there is too much chance of adding to the problem by throwing yourself in there.