Help me pick quiver ski #3

[yizzung]

A year ago on this site I was looking for a new ski to replace my '13/14 173 Bonafides. There was so much powder in the Sierras last year that I never got off my, '16/17 184 DPS Wailer 112RP2 Pure3s, so my research failed to progress much... Thankfully this year I'm not distracted by all that powder!

Rather than replace the bones, I'm just going to keep them around, but I want to find something softer and more playful in a mid-90 underfoot. I'm a finesse guy that likes trees, bumps, steeps and jumps. I don't love ripping big s-turns down groomers...

Current short list:

• Black Crows Camox
• DPS Wailer 99
• DPS Cassiar 95
• Icelantic Nomad 95
• J Skis Allplay

(Yes, I seem to have a bias for indie brands...) Sticking with a carbon DPS in a slightly narrower waist seems to be the safest bet, as I am totally in love with my 112s. They are incredibly light/nimble/playful/slarvy, which is a fair trade off for a little bit chatter at speed.

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been on any of the skis above (especially if you've been on more than one and can provide thoughts on how they compare). Thanks!

 

[Philpug]

Did you read our reviews of the DPS Cassiar 94 and Cassiar 87? And since you like Indie brands...the Renoun Z90.

 

[mister moose]

I've been on the Nomad 95s and liked them a lot in bumps. (Plus it's a great graphic this year of a DeHavilland Beaver on floats) Light, playful, tortionally rigid but a complete noodle longitudinally. A similar ski is the Faction Candide 2.0, you might add those to your list.

On the 3 point moose review scale (No thanks, meh, buy it!) both those earned the Buy it! rating.

 

[yizzung]

Did you read our reviews of the DPS Cassiar 94 and Cassiar 87? And since you like Indie brands...the Renoun Z90.

Yep, I sure did. I just assumed those 2019 94s wouldn't be available for quite some time? But if you KNOW SOMEONE who wants to unload a pair of them right away, please do let me know...

Any thoughts on how the fatter Cassiar (94/95) skis relative to the skinny (99) Wailer?

 

[yizzung]

I've been on the Nomad 95s and liked them a lot in bumps. (Plus it's a great graphic this year of a DeHavilland Beaver on floats) Light, playful, tortionally rigid but a complete noodle longitudinally. A similar ski is the Faction Candide 2.0, you might add those to your list.

On the 3 point moose review scale (No thanks, meh, buy it!) both those earned the Buy it! rating.

Agree 100% on the artwork and love their 3 year no questions warranty... Seems like a solid company.

 

[Philpug]

Yep, I sure did. I just assumed those 2019 94s wouldn't be available for quite some time? But if you KNOW SOMEONE who wants to unload a pair of them right away, please do let me know...

Any thoughts on how the fatter Cassiar (94/95) skis relative to the skinny (99) Wailer?

Actually, the 87's are available now. Both @SkiEssentials and @skifotm are site sponsors and can order them for you now.

 

[GregK]

I ski nothing but "all mountain/playful charger" type twin tips so I'm familiar with those skis except for the DPS models.

J Skis All Play, Line Blend, Candide 2.0 and the Soul Rider 97 are all fun, playful softer flexing skis that do well in the park or at lower/medium speeds all mountain but don't really love hard groomers or higher speeds. The Nomads are soft flexing as well but seem to do a better job on groomers and at speed than the previously listed ones.

The Black Crows Camox has a playful tip/tail ski with stiffer underfoot section and a touch stiffer overall than the narrower Captis. The Black Crows Camox is made in the same Atomic factory as Armada ARV 96 and there looks to be some construction similarities like the AR50 sidewall construction(50% sidewall/50% cap on tip and tail), similar weight and flex patterns. Both companies have of course designed, engineered and tweaked their own skis but similar quality of construction.

The Armada ARV 96 is the most popular recommendation in this width for a mid 90's freestyle/all mountain ski than does well in all snow conditions and is a fantastic buy for the money. It sold out early this year in many sizes due to so many rave reviews. It will feature a AR75 sidewall(75% sidewall/25% cap tip and tail) next year which should give the ARV series even more of a backbone in the ski center but it didn't seem like the Camox was changing at all other than color in 2019 models. There will even be a 2019 Armada ARV 96 Ti version will feature 2 layers of titanal to really improve hard snow performance but it will sacrifice a bit of playfulness and extra weight for more dampness and stability.

THE REFERENCE standard in a freestyle/all-mountain in this size is the ON3P Kartel 98 which is hand made in the USA and the build construction is legendary. They will be a bit heavier(but not heavy, just not super light) compared to some of the previous options but will offer amazing stability and dampness for such a playful, fun ski. Easy to ski yet could do 60mph through crud, ski hard and soft snow with ease the same day you hit jumps in the park. The perfect balance of playful and yet serious when you need it to be. You will not find them used as everyone who tries them would never part with them. ON3P has a cult like following in the freestyle world and are very reasonably priced in the realm of premium skis. My 2 ski quiver would be the Kartel 98 and 108 if I didn't get such insane deals on my current skis.

The other skis that will be interesting to consider next year will be the new Blizzard Rustler 9(94 mm underfoot) that seems to have a longer section of metal in the construction underfoot compared to the Rustler 10 and 11 but still none in the tip and tail to give a much more playful feel than the Bonafides. The Atomic Bent Chetler 100 would be another one that should be fun and geared towards better hard snow/groomer performance than it's big brother.

 

[Analisa]

+1 to ON3P. I have a lot of friends who ski the Kartels or Wrenegades and like that they're jibby, but still have enough guts to handle Cascade Concrete and are more stable.

I've got two pairs of Jessies (women's version) with my name on them for this weekend!

 

[yizzung]

Biggest downside is that it's going to be nearly impossible to demo any/all of these indies... May just have to close my eyes and guess.

Based on the great input here, and a little more online digging, I'm going to try to get my hands on one or more of the following, in no particular order:

• Nomad 95
• Kartel 98
• Sego Big Horn 96
• Praxis Piste Jib
• ARV 96 (love the reviews, hate the graphics)
• J Skis Allplay (love the reviews, hate the graphics)

 

[kw_cp]

I have the 2016 Armada Arv Ti (96) -- and it is a fantastic ski on and off piste. I'm excited to hear they're bringing it back next year. With the metal though, doesn't sound like they're what you're looking for.

 

[GregK]

I have the 2016 Armada Arv Ti (96) -- and it is a fantastic ski on and off piste. I'm excited to hear they're bringing it back next year. With the metal though, doesn't sound like they're what you're looking for.

The older ARV Ti is a slightly wider waist with wider tip/tail and rocker just on the tip. The current ARV 96 has rocker tip and tail, different sidecut, softer flex to on the extremities to make it more playful and freestyle geared than the old ARV Ti. The 2019 Model takes the new shape/flex etc and adds metal to it so it should be kinda in-between the current ARV96 and the old ARV Ti in feel I think. More for those that spend more time on harder snow and out of the park. I will be curious to try it as I find the current ARV series great on softer snow but wish for more dampness on harder snow.

 

[GregK]

Biggest downside is that it's going to be nearly impossible to demo any/all of these indies... May just have to close my eyes and guess.

Based on the great input here, and a little more online digging, I'm going to try to get my hands on one or more of the following, in no particular order:

• Nomad 95
• Kartel 98
• Sego Big Horn 96
• Praxis Piste Jib
• ARV 96 (love the reviews, hate the graphics)
• J Skis Allplay (love the reviews, hate the graphics)

Good list of skis there I think! J Skis have constantly changing options for graphics so there might be one you like soon and don't know if you've seen the 2019 Armada graphics or just this years. The Armada ARV 96 Ti graphics look cool for next year and much more refined than their regular ARV series topcoats.

Kartel 98 would be my first pick, Sego or Nomad behind as they have great build quality too, Armada and J Skis in my 3rd tier group and never skied the Praxis so no idea.
All great skis but it's tough to outperform the quality, durability and just "does everything well" of the Kartel 98 at prices less than some of those listed.

 

[David Chaus]

Definitely check out ON3P Wrenegade 88 or 98. Wrenegade is more directional, the Kartel is much more of a twin-tip jib ski, more playful. When I tried Kartels, it felt like they wanted to launch me in the air with every mogul; a lot more springy than the Wrens. If I was joining or spending time in the park or looking to hit jumps, the kartel would be it; as an all-mountain go anywhere ski the Wrens rock. Both are built really well, very solid, nice blend of damp/lively, great in the crud without feeling dead on the groomed.

If you are subscribed to Blister, look at their gear guide. They really like the ON3P’s for their on-the-snow feel and versatility.

 

[GregK]

Definitely check out ON3P Wrenegade 88 or 98. Wrenegade is more directional, the Kartel is much more of a twin-tip jib ski, more playful. When I tried Kartels, it felt like they wanted to launch me in the air with every mogul; a lot more springy than the Wrens. If I was joining or spending time in the park or looking to hit jumps, the kartel would be it; as an all-mountain go anywhere ski the Wrens rock. Both are built really well, very solid, nice blend of damp/lively, great in the crud without feeling dead on the groomed.

If you are subscribed to Blister, look at their gear guide. They really like the ON3P’s for their on-the-snow feel and versatility.

Would agree the ON3P is more versatile that most skis out there as their “freestyle” one (Kartel) does great on jumps yet can still carve turns and their “freeride” more directional skis (Wren) are still fun.

If looking to replace his Bonifide with a more traditionally mounted, longer turning radius ski that’s more fun and less demanding than the Bones, Wren series. If you wanted to ADD to the Bonifide with a freestyle/fun all mountain ski with something that can still carve a turn, Kartel Series.

Btw-chuckled at the “wanted to launch in the air off every mogul” like it was a bad thing. Freestyle oriented skiers like myself would say “It’s amazing! It wants to pop off every feature on the hill!”

 

[Analisa]

Skied both the Kartels and the Wrens today and have to echo @GregK - Wrens similar to the Bones, more playfulness in the Kartels. I was really pleased with how the Kartels cruised through the sun-warmed crud we had today and stability was top notch. I'd probably step down to the Jessie's since the men's were a little harder to flex (especially the wrens). I'm on the smaller side (5'2"), but I can generally get the majority of men's skis to bend. If you're the usual Bonafide skier that charges hard, the ON3Ps will probably keep up fine. Their rep also mentioned that they're thinking of a money back guarantee like 4FRNT did this year if you want some contingency if you aren't not thrilled.

 

[yizzung]

Thought it would be fun to revisit this post after the season... So much good info in here, really enjoyed all the additional commentary. In case future lurkers are in a similar predicament, can share what I did and what I learned. Got close to 30 days on the mountain and learned a lot.

I ended up adding a Faction Candide 2.0 as ski #3. Kept the Bones and ended up skiing them a fair amount, even though I'm kinda tired of them. Probably half the time on the Bones and half on the Factions, when condition warranted. (The rest of the time was on my DPS.)

The Factions were a fun distraction. I tooled around a bit in the park (all jumps, no rails) and found it to be a good way to spend a few hours when the conditions on the rest of the hill weren't great. But, alas, I'm a 40-something year old dude. And I LOVE steeps, trees and bumps. So my park days are likely numbered.

The biggest downside of the Factions -- not surprisingly -- is their performance outside of the park. Very longitudinally noodley. Didn't feel great in bumps, to me. Not my cup of tea outside of the park... I'm going to unload the Factions and the old Bones this year and focus on a new daily driver when the conditions aren't deep enough for the DPS 112 Wailers.

With the really parky, surfy ski flirtation out of my system, I'm back to wanting something kinda like my Bones but lighter, nimbler in the trees, and maybe a bit more fun/forgiving in the bumps. Don't need to be as stiff/heavy as the Bones -- I'm not a former racer -- but I easily found the speed limits on the Factions.

At the earliest convenience this upcoming year, hoping to get on the following:

• DPS Alchemist Wailer 99 (I love the 112s and I hear they've stiffened these up a bit for next season. Plus, super light.)
• Wren 96 (I guess 98s are gone now... Heavier and likely stiffer than DPS, probably ski a bit closer to the Bones, but lighter than the Bones.) That's IF I can find them in a 179, which are currently sold out.
• Renoun Endurance 98 -- guessing I'll either love it or hate it? I think the Z90 is a bit too much of a frontside carver.
• [MAYBE] the new Rustler 9, as it sounds like it may hit the sweet spot, but I'd still like to find an indie after several years on Blizzards.

Thanks again to everyone who posted such great advice. Happy to follow up once the season gets closer!

 

[Marty McSly]

I'd still like to find an indie after several years on Blizzards

J skis Master Blaster may be in the ballpark?

 

[cantunamunch]

The biggest downside of the Factions -- not surprisingly -- is their performance outside of the park. Very longitudinally noodley. Didn't feel great in bumps, to me. Not my cup of tea outside of the park... I'm going to unload the Factions and the old Bones this year and focus on a new daily driver when the conditions aren't deep enough for the DPS 112 Wailers.

With the really parky, surfy ski flirtation out of my system, I'm back to wanting something kinda like my Bones but lighter, nimbler in the trees, and maybe a bit more fun/forgiving in the bumps. Don't need to be as stiff/heavy as the Bones -- I'm not a former racer -- but I easily found the speed limits on the Factions.

One of the things that can be fun to do with a ski that soft is super-steered turns, where you don't use the sidecut of the ski at all but instead constantly flexing the ski faster than it wants to go by winding and unwinding your core muscles.

People use the word 'surfy' a lot in relation to soft skis. The action I speak of here has absolutely nothing in common with surf - it's far closer to managing tension on a pole as you fight a big fish through the water.

Just throwing it out there in case you still have the Factions on a crud/3D snow day.

 

[MountainMonster]

https://www.pugski.com/threads/2015-2016-black-crows-captis.9428/#post-256012

 

[jmeb]

If you're into indy skis, a couple that should be on the list:

- Moment PB&J. Stiff but not Bonefide stiff, more tail rocker makes bumps and trees easier. May be a bit too forward-mounted depend on your style
- Praxis Piste Jib. Yeah, it has jib in the name, but its not a park ski. Super playful ski that is still stout enough to arc nicely on firm groomers.
- 4frnt MSP 99. Less tail rocker than the moment, nice medium flex, a bit of metal but not as much as the Bones. Plus just $600 full retail.