Help me find 0.5 seconds

[Living Proof]

Kevin,
I remember when we meet at a Stowe Pug bump-phest, and, then, watching you ski in Jackson last year and thinking you are a much improved skier. Just a personal opinion from a recreational skier, but, we part time skiers either focus on all-mountain skiing or work on building race specific technique. I smiled at your comment that it took you years to develop pivot slip skills, and, wonder what you would ski like if your mentor was a racer. I do think there is a .5 second improvement in your skiing with more focus and practice. Go for it.

 

[KevinF]

Kevin,
I remember when we meet at a Stowe Pug bump-phest, and, then, watching you ski in Jackson last year and thinking you are a much improved skier. Just a personal opinion from a recreational skier, but, we part time skiers either focus on all-mountain skiing or work on building race specific technique. I smiled at your comment that it took you years to develop pivot slip skills, and, wonder what you would ski like if your mentor was a racer. I do think there is a .5 second improvement in your skiing with more focus and practice. Go for it.

Thanks for your kind words. I think my skiing has improved by a lot from year to year. The improvements have been harder to notice, but I think they're still present.

That said... I don't subscribe to the theory that there is an appreciable difference between "all mountain skiing" and "race specific technique". If one improves, the other should improve with it. My bump skiing gets better when I improve my groomer skiing, and vice versa. The technique issues discussed in this thread aren't really race-specific things; they're just "good skiing".

epic and I were talking the other day and I mentioned I was looking forward to going to Aspen and skiing a real bump line again for just about the first time this season "assuming I remember how". He kind of looked at me and just said "uhhhh... you know, it's still just skiing".

I'm proud of how I ski today; I think I do pretty well for myself. If you told me during @Philpug 's first bump-phests years ago that one day I'd be skiing like I do today, well, I would have said you're crazy. But here I am. I've yet to be satisfied with how I ski, and I hope that I never am. And damnit, once I find that elusive 0.5 seconds, I'll be back asking how to get another 0.5 seconds.

@Tricia -- we don't have the little ski racer dude emoticon that we had on Epic! I need him!

 

[Josh Matta]

Since Epic and Josh have skied with you quite a bit, I wonder if they could say how your free-skiing form compares to your race course form. My impression is that your form is usually pretty good, and the course pressure is causing regression. My guess is that you should spend more time skiing a line that does not finish turns quite as much.

its causing some but not much, IMO the second video was "worse" Although the reality is both the videos show how Kevin skis. FYI I would be the first to blame alignment but having seen Kevin ski he is at least very close in his set up.

I think in the dual format something that has helps me mentally is to not go at the same time as the other racer. For me I get nervous skiing beside someone in a race course, I usually choose to let them go and then go 4-5 second behind them. the time is what matters not who get down first.

IMO Anyone needs to be unconsciously competent at skill before it will work for them in gates, or heck anywhere where they are "Stressed"

Kevin that panel SL sure looks fun.

 

[KevinF]

I think in the dual format something that has helps me mentally is to not go at the same time as the other racer. For me I get nervous skiing beside someone in a race course, I usually choose to let them go and then go 4-5 second behind them. the time is what matters not who get down first.

Yeah, almost nobody in our league actually goes for a simultaneous start. There have been some scary near-misses over the years when two people go simultaneously and one crashes. The two courses are timed independently. I like going first because that way there's not another skier out there in my peripheral vision... some people like having a rabbit to chase. In the two videos I posted, both of my opponents were "I like to go first" as well, so we each did a "go first" run. So yeah, the "real" time gaps weren't as big as it looked like in the video.

IMO Anyone needs to be unconsciously competent at skill before it will work for them in gates, or heck anywhere where they are "Stressed"

I agree with that 100%.

Kevin that panel SL sure looks fun.

If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't keep doing it!

 

[ScotsSkier]

its causing some but not much, IMO the second video was "worse" Although the reality is both the videos show how Kevin skis. FYI I would be the first to blame alignment but having seen Kevin ski he is at least very close in his set up.

I think in the dual format something that has helps me mentally is to not go at the same time as the other racer. For me I get nervous skiing beside someone in a race course, I usually choose to let them go and then go 4-5 second behind them. the time is what matters not who get down first.

IMO Anyone needs to be unconsciously competent at skill before it will work for them in gates, or heck anywhere where they are "Stressed"

Kevin that panel SL sure looks fun.

Interesting. I really like dual slalom because seeing your competition really encourages you to just open up and let it rip. It is a great way to encourage p those who hold back a bit when racing to really let go

 

[Living Proof]

That said... I don't subscribe to the theory that there is an appreciable difference between "all mountain skiing" and "race specific technique". If one improves, the other should improve with it. My bump skiing gets better when I improve my groomer skiing, and vice versa. The technique issues discussed in this thread aren't really race-specific things; they're just "good skiing".

Just to continue the discussion a little further, I think the serious beer league racers that I see, ski a whole lot different than all-mountain skiers. While riding a chair and looking at those coming down the hill, racers clearly stand out. Certainly, there is a relationship between improving groomer skiing resulting in better bump and race skiing. I do think that beer league racers focus their technique much more to better angles and body positions that result in a very clean RR tracks. Focus and intent are factors that Bob Barnes and Bud Heishman point out as critical to improving performance, ie the "Go" factor. Racers work everyday with the intent of lowering Nastar handicaps, I don't think the all-mountain community seeks that level of improvement, that is not a knock as they are out there to enjoy the experience.

This past week, the serious racer group at my home mountain, brought in a race coach for a 3 full day seminar. The progression drills they worked on are not found in traditional instruction programs. If I could do a mini rant, it would attack saying that "good skiing is good skiing" and champion the "Go" vs "Breaking" concepts that Bob writes about. If you can do the "Go", you will be a good all-mountain skier, not sure the reverse is true.

 

[Josh Matta]

ummmm there are ton of All mountain skiers that can leave clean RR tracks on even really icey slopes. Kevin;s coach is one of them......

 

[Living Proof]

ummmm there are ton of All mountain skiers that can leave clean RR tracks on even really icey slopes. Kevin;s coach is one of them......

Absolutely agree. While I don't get to Stowe much, I always enjoy watching the level of skiing, far, far superior to my little home mountain. And, I would bet they would do fairly well in beer league type racing.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Absolutely agree. While I don't get to Stowe much, I always enjoy watching the level of skiing, far, far superior to my little home mountain. And, I would bet they would do fairly well in beer league type racing.

The thing is: once most skiers enter a race course, they revert to rote movements - i.e. they go by instinct, with any newly-learned movements tossed by the wayside.

@KevinF, do you ever have the opportunity to run gates outside of the night racing league? It might be nice to work on drills and techniques in gates but outside of competition.

I'd also like to see a lateral/sagital angle of video - hope that can happen in the coming weeks.

That said, I concur that your skiing has come a looooooong way over the years - it's awesome to see! Racing is such a logical next step, and you'll continue to learn. What the others have suggested is all good food for thought. To add my $0.02:

1. There is a significant amount of inclination due to a lack of upper body/lower body separation. You should feel a pinch in your lower abs and lats.
2. The outside arm punching through causes your tails to slide at the end of each turn - add up all the slides and you have more like a whole second that is being left on the course. Combine that with the dropping of the inside hand, and it exaggerates the issue.
3. The course set is tight - no surprise given the race venue. As such, it's likely necessary to make a rotary movement (within the hip sockets) to align the skis for a carve before you set your edges in the turn. If you combine the rotary movement within the turn, it's awfully tough to carve and generate speed.
4. One thing I really like is that you don't pop up much between turns. If you combine this with trying to keep your jacket zipper facing the fall line, you'll have a very quick transition from turn to turn. This refers back to point 1, above.
5. When you grab a tuck at the end of the course, be sure that you keep your ankles actively flexed (which should be happening throughout the course, to be complete). That'll allow the tips of your skis to engage early and cleanly in the bottom turns, thus preserving speed.

Keep it up, man! And enjoy Aspen - I'm a wee bit jealous.

 

[crgildart]

Couple of rec racer call outs that are no where near as informed and reputable as Rudi and Scottie's are..

Lose the jacket. You'll get a 1/4 to a 1/2 second just by going with less bulky clothes,

As for the "high line" folks talk about. I tend to pretend each gate is actually 5-10 feet higher up the mountain than they actually are starting with the first one out of the start and keep that going through all but the most tight ones. You want to be finishing your turn and setting up for the next gate at the point you pass the current one. That keeps you out of the chatter, ice, and fluff piles below the gates. That's how I try to make that happen anyway..

 

[Josh Matta]

less bulky clothes are not going to matter on a panel SL.

You can tell yourself that for the placebo affect.

 

[crgildart]

less bulky clothes are not going to matter on a panel SL.

You can tell yourself that for the placebo affect.

We must be talking about different everything then. The video I watched looked like a pretty easy NASTAR type set with OP tucking the last 4 gates. A suit would most definitely make a difference here..


But you can convince yourself otherwise for the placebo effect

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Well, here's what I think. Kevin you already know what to work on in your technique. Personally, I think your line is pretty decent (could get better, but not so bad - hint: try to hit the gate with your butt as you pass below it) and if you can ski that line without thinking about it too much maybe you can race it while thinking about leveling. I wonder how do you warm up? Do you even get a chance to warm up at all? Go out there and work hard on some drills before your run so you already have the feel. If it's not crazy cold, stripping won't hurt. Whoever said to work on your start is right you could gain a half second there is you haven't really worked on it much. We can work on that when you get back.

 

[oldschoolskier]

One of the things I've learned in all sorts of competition are two things: "You have all the time in the world" and "SMOOTH"

This means if you feel rushed you are doing something wrong or aren't comfortable with it yet. The second well is pretty simple, if it ain't smooth you haven't got it down pat yet, more practice.

In skiing when you look at the top racers they never looked rushed (even when in trouble) and they always move smoothly (even when in trouble), which is why they are at the top.

In short trust in your skills on the course and practice practice practice.

 

[markojp]

The funny thing about racing is your fastest runs will always feel slow, and your slowest runs, fast.

 

[razie]

Your line's not bad - you seem to enter the rise line when you should, but you can't make the skis grip and turn, so you end up skidding under the gate.

You need to tip the skis on edge seriously and angulate seriously above the gate and make the skis grip an edge - that would be the first thing.

cheers

 

[ScotsSkier]

The funny thing about racing is your fastest runs will always feel slow, and your slowest runs, fast.

so true! the number of times I have come through the finish, beating my pole on the ground because i think I have screwed it and then see the time is actually half decent!

 

[ToddW]

Your line's not bad - you seem to enter the rise line when you should, but you can't make the skis grip and turn, so you end up skidding under the gate.

You need to tip the skis on edge seriously and angulate seriously above the gate and make the skis grip an edge - that would be the first thing.

cheers

OP is unlikely to achieve this without an alignment fix, Josh's earlier comment notwithstanding.

 

[razie]

OP is unlikely to achieve this without an alignment fix, Josh's earlier comment notwithstanding.

Good point - alignment should be looked at, although it doesn't look that far off (looking at just that one run)... are you thinking he's so strong right now that he can't help but move away from the skis, on both sides? He shouldn't have a problem gripping in that case, though...?

 

[KevinF]

Sorry for the delay in responding to this thread. Thanks for keeping it alive. I was more interested in skiing Aspen powder than I was in bashing gates for a few days.

do you ever have the opportunity to run gates outside of the night racing league? It might be nice to work on drills and techniques in gates but outside of competition.

Usually Stowe sets up public gates at some point, but I haven't seen them do it all year. Obviously we've been having a terrible season. So, yeah, unfortunately there's negligible gate practice.

I'd also like to see a lateral/sagital angle of video - hope that can happen in the coming weeks.

The alignment thing has come up a couple times in this thread... I can try to get some more video before the season is out, but I've skied with @epic and @Bob Barnes this season and neither of them has mentioned alignment even once. So I'm of the thought that anything that looks like alignment in video is probably caused by counter and/or angulation, or -- more specifically -- the lack thereof.

That said, I concur that your skiing has come a looooooong way over the years - it's awesome to see!

Thanks!

Keep it up, man! And enjoy Aspen - I'm a wee bit jealous.

Aspen didn't suck. gcool

We must be talking about different everything then. The video I watched looked like a pretty easy NASTAR type set with OP tucking the last 4 gates. A suit would most definitely make a difference here..

I've skied our course with and without a jacket, and, in my case, it makes no appreciable difference. And while I' haven't skied much NASTAR recently (seems less popular than it used to be), the ones I ran were nowhere nearly as tight as the Nashoba course is. Most people running the Nashoba course are on FIS slalom skis (I am too). My experience with slalom skis and NASTAR courses is that slalom skis are far too turny.

The "other" big race league in eastern Massachusetts is Wachusett which is a NASTAR course. Speaking to those who have done both, the "weapon of choice" at their venue is a 20+ meter GS ski. I don't know if NASTAR uses a standard course set or not.

The funny thing about racing is your fastest runs will always feel slow, and your slowest runs, fast.

Yep. I've discovered that! "WOOHOO! That was awesome..." And then I look at the time and do a WTF?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

So I have two more weeks to go. Raced last night. I was trying to keep some of the line stuff that @ScotsSkier mentioned. I thought it was going really well and then I really messed up... Let's just say that I'm glad I practice White Pass Turns occasionally, because there was zero outside ski contact on one turn and I was stupid low and late from there. Thankfully my opponent had zero inside or outside ski contact and wound up kissing the snow. Wins are wins. And I still finished my usual 0.5 seconds out of the top-half of the draw. One day I'll get there!