Help me correct A-Frame

[dbostedo]

Careful is the key word here! ... Remember that they can still be beneficial even if they are toned down a bit.

As someone with bad knees (who skis with braces), I have to say that video looked painful... and if I tried to get the angles he does, I'm pretty sure I would no longer be skiing. BUT I think the drills themselves are beneficial, and I actually practice a couple of them myself, but without that much sideways pressure on my knees - only to where I'm OK pushing it.

 

[Doby Man]

I’m sure that the skier’s edge provides a good workout that will not really hurt your technique with diversionary ingraining, however, this exercise does not take into account enough of the actual dynamics of flexion and extension at play over a pair of skis in order to improve ski technique much at all.

Flexion, extension, fluidity, staticity and ground force reaction … the way I see it:

Flexion and extension: There are two forms of flexion and extension: static and fluid. There are two ways that both flexion and extension can be powered: ground force reaction and muscular effort. Static flexion and extension use muscular effort while fluid flexion and extension uses ground force reaction.

Ground force reaction (GFR): There is both “positive” and “negative” GFR. Positive GFR is created by steering the ski/BoS “into” the path of the body/CoM and creates an upward force that we can use to create/power full body flexion (hip/knee/ankle). Negative GFR is created by steering the skis/BoS “away” from the path of the body/CoM and is a outward “pulling” force we can use to create/power full body extension (hip/knee/ankle). Negative GFR, rarely, if ever, discussed in any form, is something that could be referred to as “ski force reaction” as it is really coming from the ski rather than the ground.

This is how small “technical” inputs at the ankle and foot can, through the ski, create both positive and negative ground force reaction in order to fund/power the larger full body movements of both flexion and extension. For me, correct timing of movements with the geometric elements of the the turn is what creates and manages both positive and negative GFR and is a/the formula for muscular efficiency in modern skiing. To achieve correct timing of movements with the turn, we simply allow the body to respond to GFR (created by active feet) with flexion and extension with a loose and supple body rather than to use the body to force the ski into action. We can either use the body to initiate/force the ski into action or use the ski to initiate/force the body into action. The later provides perfect “inherent” timing of movements and is much more effortless.

My new path and priority of kinesthesis: Foot to ski to ground to GFR to ski to body flexion and extension.

My old path and priority of kinesthesis: Body flexion and extension to ski to ground to GFR that is muffled and wasted with bad timing.

Static and fluid flexion:

Static flexion, visually undetectable, an individual’s “stance” flexion, is a measurement of flexion that is maintained throughout the entire turn cycle. Static flexion is motored/powered by an extension force resistance to gravity funded by muscular contraction/effort.

Fluid flexion, a visually detectable movement, otherwise known as “retraction” is movement that takes place between an equal amount of extension. With good timing of movements with the turn, luid flexion can be powered by positive GFR and is funded by the power of the turn rather than muscular contraction/effort.

Static and fluid extension:

Static extension, a visually undetectable force than can be considered as applying a metered resistance to both gravity and ground force reaction and requiring muscular contractions/effort. Static extension is motored/powered by the extension force funded by muscle contraction/effort.

Fluid extension, a visually detectable movement that which takes place between an equal amount of flexion. Fluid extension is powered by negative GFR as the ski/BoS steers away from the body/CoM, it “pulls” the body, (hips, knees, ankles) into a state of extension and is funded by the power of the turn rather than muscular contraction/effort.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Doby Man that is probably the most enlightening post I have ever read comparing the difference between Level II skiing and Level III skiing technique. It describes what I can only assume are the differences between advanced intermediate skiing and efficient skiing. Basically you wrote a long - which is extremely helpful to me - post about "less is more." Which to me is the definition of efficiency.

I look forward to practicing the movements you describe.

 

[markojp]

Doby Man that is probably the most enlightening post I have ever read comparing the difference between Level II skiing and Level III skiing technique. It describes what I can only assume are the differences between advanced intermediate skiing and efficient skiing. Basically you wrote a long - which is extremely helpful to me - post about "less is more." Which to me is the definition of efficiency.

I look forward to practicing the movements you describe.

Making forces vs. managing forces.

 

[James O]

oh boy.... Do you really think Stenmark skis like this on current gear? I know that Franz sure doesn't.

Not qualified to say but here is some recent footage by the looks of it...

 

[Tim Hodgson]

James O: Vilken racer är Ingemar Stenmark? Är han till vänster eller höger från att kika upp hill?

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Making forces vs. managing forces.

Yes you say it succinctly.

But markojp, if you do not know, I will say it explicitly. I respect you and your knowledge. So let me share this with you: When you teach dumb people like me. Say what Doby Man said. Expalin it longer than your summation. Because it is more enlightening. With each word sequentially lighting up a brain cell.

Then sum it up like the guru you are with the easily remembered: "Making forces vs. managing forces."

Anyone wanna guess which technique I have been cluelessly employing in the last 15 years of my Level II skiing/teaching?

 

[markojp]

Don't get me wrong. I thought Doby's post was great!

 

[James O]

James O: Vilken racer är Ingemar Stenmark? Är han till vänster eller höger från att kika upp hill?

Don't know Swedish but Google Translate is my friend. I think Steni is in the red course and Pernilla Wiberg in blue.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

This thread is full great advice to help nearly any skier looking to improve. My favorite kind of summertime reading. My wife falls into the larger side of the range at 5’10” and 190#’s She has worked for years on looking pretty when she skis with her legs perfectly together and her hands quiet out in front. Noticed that an occasional A frame appeared in her toolbox of turns on really steep sections. Holding to the golden rule of never criticizing your partner’s skiing I kept my mouth shut. Our ski bum teammate who is a female level 3 PSIA mogul instructor took on the task of getting her to unglue her legs and ski with a slight leg gap. She would ski behind her telling her to feel the breeze right up to her crotch. My wife was afraid of developing a leg gap that resembled the gorilla like stance that I posses. Total different solution to the A-Frame that the OP has but still an A Frame crutch. The high level discussion on this very common problem was most enlightening.

 

[Seldomski]

In my experience, thinking about pressing the outside leg in the turn or weighting the outside leg in general is counter productive. To build pressure on the outside ski, I had to think about raising the knee and rolling toward the little toe on the inside foot. The result was more pressure on the outside ski and better edge engagement.

You can feel this on dry land. While standing, press your 'outside foot' down. Really try to force this foot into the ground! What happens? Your center of mass moves over your inside foot and you get an A-frame. You are now balanced on the inside foot. This is the opposite of what you want.

Now, instead, lighten your inside foot. What naturally happens is your center of mass moves over your outside foot. You cannot lighten that foot without moving your body over your outside ski. All you are trying to do is lift that inside knee. The result is a bunch of other joints moving so that weight on that foot is removed and placed on the outside foot.

The final piece is to lift the inside foot, but also maintain positive control of what the edge of the inside ski is doing. If you just lighten the inside foot without edge control, you will likely have a mismatch in edge angles. The skis will cross (flat inside ski, edged outside ski) and explode. I've fallen this way many times because I get lazy. I am still working on my skiing...

 

[skier]

In my experience, thinking about pressing the outside leg in the turn or weighting the outside leg in general is counter productive. To build pressure on the outside ski, I had to think about raising the knee and rolling toward the little toe on the inside foot. The result was more pressure on the outside ski and better edge engagement.

You can feel this on dry land. While standing, press your 'outside foot' down. Really try to force this foot into the ground! What happens? Your center of mass moves over your inside foot and you get an A-frame. You are now balanced on the inside foot. This is the opposite of what you want.

Now, instead, lighten your inside foot. What naturally happens is your center of mass moves over your outside foot. You cannot lighten that foot without moving your body over your outside ski. All you are trying to do is lift that inside knee. The result is a bunch of other joints moving so that weight on that foot is removed and placed on the outside foot.

The final piece is to lift the inside foot, but also maintain positive control of what the edge of the inside ski is doing. If you just lighten the inside foot without edge control, you will likely have a mismatch in edge angles. The skis will cross (flat inside ski, edged outside ski) and explode. I've fallen this way many times because I get lazy. I am still working on my skiing...

Much of what you are saying makes sense, though I have a few thoughts. In your descriptions of what happens when you lift the inside ski or when you press your outside foot down, you are considering static situations. In a dynamic situation, such as initiating a turn, centrifugal force comes into play, so that where your mass goes and where you want it to go may be different than when you are just standing on the ground. For example, you talk about how pressing the outside foot down moves your mass over your inside foot, which I think is true, but when you go into a turn the mass does need to move toward the center of the circle away from your outside ski, and there are techniques such as inside leg extension that people use effectively. I think in reality if you look at a skier with a high edge angle, the inside leg is contracted and the outside leg is extended. Then, when they go to the opposite edge angle, the old inside leg becomes extended and the old outside leg becomes contracted. There may be no way to transition like that without both pressing on one leg and lifting with the other.

 

[JESinstr]

In my experience, thinking about pressing the outside leg in the turn or weighting the outside leg in general is counter productive. To build pressure on the outside ski, I had to think about raising the knee and rolling toward the little toe on the inside foot. The result was more pressure on the outside ski and better edge engagement.

YUP!

Much of what you are saying makes sense, though I have a few thoughts. In your descriptions of what happens when you lift the inside ski or when you press your outside foot down, you are considering static situations. In a dynamic situation, such as initiating a turn, centrifugal force comes into play, so that where your mass goes and where you want it to go may be different than when you are just standing on the ground. For example, you talk about how pressing the outside foot down moves your mass over your inside foot, which I think is true, but when you go into a turn the mass does need to move toward the center of the circle away from your outside ski, and there are techniques such as inside leg extension that people use effectively. I think in reality if you look at a skier with a high edge angle, the inside leg is contracted and the outside leg is extended. Then, when they go to the opposite edge angle, the old inside leg becomes extended and the old outside leg becomes contracted. There may be no way to transition like that without both pressing on one leg and lifting with the other.

IMO this is not a static vs dynamic argument. It is about how a skier needs to move laterally under gravity in order to properly engage and aligned their mass with the inside edge of the outside ski in preparation for the generation of centripetal (turning/circular) force . Gravity is the "force of record' at transition and at low velocity.

If you ask someone standing equally on two feet to put more weight (BTW weight is a term we should only use while working with gravity) on the right foot, there are various ways to accomplish this task. 1. You can focus on pushing on the left foot (extension) and/or leaning your upper mass over your right foot . This is how we walk/run except front to back vs side to side. 2. You can simply focus on lightening the left foot without losing contact with the ground.

Odds are that most will choose #1 because that is what they do every day. The lateral transfer of our weight (under gravity) using the #2 method is what we need to use in skiing. This especially needs to be taught and ingrained in never ever lessons using a narrow wedge.

Finally, regarding the term Centrifugal force.... I am not a Centrifugal force denier but I am a Centrifugal force understander. Simply put, the force we feel and call Centrifugal is our mass trying to return from circular travel to straight line travel. If we focus on reacting to that force the mechanics of bracing will prevail.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Odds are that most will choose #1 because that is what they do every day. The lateral transfer of our weight (under gravity) using the #2 method is what we need to use in skiing. This especially needs to be taught and ingrained in never ever lessons using a narrow wedge.

Got it. And I can teach that in my lessons, although last year my focus was on steering (rotating the ski) and not edge/pressure.

BTW, markojp I used to say "pressure/edge" now I say "edge/pressure." Am I correct that the first phrase describes "making forces" and the second describes "managing forces?"

Finally, regarding the term Centrifugal force.... I am not a Centrifugal force denier but I am a Centrifugal force understander. Simply put, the force we feel and call Centrifugal is our mass trying to return from circular travel to straight line travel. If we focus on reacting to that force the mechanics of bracing will prevail.

I am a big time bracer. Please explain more.

 

[Doby Man]

@Tim Hodgson , thanks. I like to write what my skis feel like to me during the offseason to take some of the edge off my jonesing. Writing what I feel when skiing later in excruciating detail has me basking in the sensations. I know, pathetic, but not necessarily alone. Yes, @markojp makes an excellent extraction from that post. Anyone can create ground force reaction. Managing it to work for you is a whole other ball game. Keeping that wave of power behind you and your direction is the trick.

When I read discussions about inside leg shortening/lightening, I often see a major split in technical conception between skiers who use/conceive their kinetic chain from the “top down” vs. from the “bottom up” or skiing “from” the hips vs. skiing “from” the feet. Initiating our DIRT at the hips or the feet? Hmmmmm. There is a fine line between having a stable core and being loosey goosey. A good slalom racer has a good representation of riding that fine line of delicate power. We may find that if we place more tension in our feet and ankles that is constantly working against the boot/binding/ski with tipping and fore/aft pressure regulation, we can then let our core relax more so that the hips can more freely/loosely respond to ground force reaction. We want to split or share the tension between our core (CoM) and our feet (BoS). Think: “separate” (separate) but equal. As a matter of fact, like two ballroom dancers, we let the CoM and Bos work “independently” yet in “concert” together. But which dancer do you let lead? The Com (hips) or the BoS (feet)? Now, it is your feet (BoS) that has the skis … right? Would you rather play kinetic chain relay from your hips to your feet/skis or your feet/skis to your hips? How about if you want the ski to do as much of the work as possible? In the sport of skiing, lazy can be powerful.

I often see JF Beaulieu’s quote posted here “tipping happens as a result of inside leg shortening” (or something close enough to that), which I do not think makes sense when the concept is followed through to its final fruition. It sounds like to me that we are choosing our rate and timing of the turn based on how much we shorten and/or lighten the inside leg. Are we really choosing when and how much to turn with inside leg shortening or lightening? Sounds awkward and unwieldy if you ask me. Maybe some skiers are, probably many from what I read, but it does not sound like a very functional way to make a turn to someone like me. For me, the opposite is true - inside leg shortening happens - as a result - of inside tipping, as a geometric output - the more you tip that inside ski, the more ground force reaction (limited on the inside ski from 10 to 30% of total ski pressure) will produce vertical separation that will “push” up on the inside leg. If it is loose and not locked up with static forces of flexion and extension, it will shorten automatically on its own with no effort required to lift that leg yourself. Tip equally and tip high and GFR will “push” your inside leg up effortlessly. And, you will be riding the lion’s share of load to the outside ski that you will be riding across the hill on but with the inside ski engaged, fully bent and ready to take over with a smooth and progressive transfer of power from ski to ski.

Through maintaining high tension in the feet and ankles with tipping and dori/plantar flexion while “relaxing” your legs, hips, abs, spine and shoulders, things will become automated and effortless. You are no longer responsible for much of the work that was once invested with so much physical effort and, instead of running to fly your kite, you can instead sit back and relax like a pilot at his set of controls. Though, if you use no pressure on that inside ski, nothing will happen and you will have to lift and lighten that leg and ski yourself. If that is your goal. As well, if you have too much pressure on the inside ski, at the wrong time, too early or late, you are likely either out of balance or not in complete control of the turn. When the ski itself becomes the primary input into the system of a ski turn, almost all the major movements of the body become outputs. When our upper body movements become outputs rather than inputs, the timing and rates of those movements become inherently accurate. When your major body movements are direct inputs, you are then required to judge the rate, timing, duration and intensity needed for the upcoming turn. Or, maybe you’re judging in advance of the next turn how much to shorten or lighten your leg? Again, hmmmmmm. If you are off with these judgments, especially timing, you will not have the ski pressure when needed. Release the body of the responsibility of that control and limit that upper body control to CoM/BoS relationship management, staying loose and in balance, you will find out how much more work you ski is willing and able to contribute.

Like good swordsmanship, the locus of control (primary kinesthetic focus and kinetic priority) is at the hands and wrist for which the kinetic path of movement through the rest of the body merely supports and responds. The weight, momentum and centrifugal rotation of the sword alone is the power that is wielded. It is not the swing of the arm but the tweak of the wrist that controls the sword's force reaction that will provide the swiftest and cleanest decapitation of your enemy’s head. I mean … let’s be realistic here.

 

[JESinstr]

Tim Hodgson said

Got it. And I can teach that in my lessons, although last year my focus was on steering (rotating the ski) and not edge/pressure. Steering is important. Steering happens under the force of gravity (not centripetal) and is a combination of edging and foot/leg rotation commonly called skidding. IMO, skidding into a turn is what we are now all calling "Brushing ". This too, can and should be taught in the never ever lesson. The proper mechanics of edging and rotation can be learned by the forming and releasing of a wedge. The rotary part is key. The foot/leg needs to be rotated, not pushed out from the heel...kind of a brushing effect.... get it?

BTW, markojp I used to say "pressure/edge" now I say "edge/pressure." Am I correct that the first phrase describes "making forces" and the second describes "managing forces?" Hopefully @markojp will chime in. There are a lot of profound "Catch Phrases" out there and "Making forces vs. managing forces" is a good one. Had not heard that one yet.

I am a big time bracer. Please explain more.
We may have a definition issue here....
But to the point of Markojp's phrase, because Gravity is constantly pulling on your mass, you are always Making force. Add velocity provided by slippery skis and the slope and that force increases. Because we are dealing with the straight line travel of gravity, the only thing you can do to control your speed is to defend (brace) against it.... UNLESS... you have a way to convert that force into another force like centripetal (circular) travel. The BIG difference is that Centripetal Force PUSHES.

Unlike gravity, Centripetal is a force that is created by you and your trusty skis. Therefore, it requires ongoing management and regulation. We regulate circular travel by increasing and decreasing edge angles via the shortening and lengthening of the inside leg. We manage the resultant centripetal push force via flexion and extension. It is hard for me to imagine A-framing when we change focus to our inside ski to lead the edging process.

Next season, find a wide open groomer and focus on progressively shortening the inside leg well into the shaping phase. That increasing outside ski pressure you will be feeling is coming from higher edge angles caused by that inside shortening and is not something that is pulling you, but pushing you into the turn. [/QUOTE]

 

[Steve]

@Doby Man great post, my skiing has improved so much thanks to your wisdom in the last 2 years.

The analogy I use when teaching is holding a pen (or pencil.) Where do we hold it to write? Near the tip. I take my ski pole and mimic writing with it. It's very hard to write holding a pen in the middle or up near the top. The best control come from near the tip. Where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Or, as you say - from the feet, or as you've said, from the skis themselves. Thinking of the tips of the skis as our toes and the tails as our heels - an extension of our feet.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

In my experience, thinking about pressing the outside leg in the turn or weighting the outside leg in general is counter productive. To build pressure on the outside ski, I had to think about raising the knee and rolling toward the little toe on the inside foot. The result was more pressure on the outside ski and better edge engagement.

And if you think about raising the little toe of the outside ski instead of pressing harder on the big toe edge, you will find the outside leg does not get stiff and any bracing diminishes while edge engagement remains.

 

[JESinstr]

@Tim Hodgson , thanks. I like to write what my skis feel like to me during the offseason to take some of the edge off my jonesing. Writing what I feel when skiing later in excruciating detail has me basking in the sensations. I know, pathetic, but not necessarily alone. Yes, @markojp makes an excellent extraction from that post. Anyone can create ground force reaction. Managing it to work for you is a whole other ball game. Keeping that wave of power behind you and your direction is the trick.

When I read discussions about inside leg shortening/lightening, I often see a major split in technical conception between skiers who use/conceive their kinetic chain from the “top down” vs. from the “bottom up” or skiing “from” the hips vs. skiing “from” the feet. Initiating our DIRT at the hips or the feet? Hmmmmm. There is a fine line between having a stable core and being loosey goosey. A good slalom racer has a good representation of riding that fine line of delicate power. We may find that if we place more tension in our feet and ankles that is constantly working against the boot/binding/ski with tipping and fore/aft pressure regulation, we can then let our core relax more so that the hips can more freely/loosely respond to ground force reaction. We want to split or share the tension between our core (CoM) and our feet (BoS). Think: “separate” (separate) but equal. As a matter of fact, like two ballroom dancers, we let the CoM and Bos work “independently” yet in “concert” together. But which dancer do you let lead? The Com (hips) or the BoS (feet)? Now, it is your feet (BoS) that has the skis … right? Would you rather play kinetic chain relay from your hips to your feet/skis or your feet/skis to your hips? How about if you want the ski to do as much of the work as possible? In the sport of skiing, lazy can be powerful.

I often see JF Beaulieu’s quote posted here “tipping happens as a result of inside leg shortening” (or something close enough to that), which I do not think makes sense when the concept is followed through to its final fruition. It sounds like to me that we are choosing our rate and timing of the turn based on how much we shorten and/or lighten the inside leg. Are we really choosing when and how much to turn with inside leg shortening or lightening? Sounds awkward and unwieldy if you ask me. Maybe some skiers are, probably many from what I read, but it does not sound like a very functional way to make a turn to someone like me. For me, the opposite is true - inside leg shortening happens - as a result - of inside tipping, as a geometric output - the more you tip that inside ski, the more ground force reaction (limited on the inside ski from 10 to 30% of total ski pressure) will produce vertical separation that will “push” up on the inside leg. If it is loose and not locked up with static forces of flexion and extension, it will shorten automatically on its own with no effort required to lift that leg yourself. Tip equally and tip high and GFR will “push” your inside leg up effortlessly. And, you will be riding the lion’s share of load to the outside ski that you will be riding across the hill on but with the inside ski engaged, fully bent and ready to take over with a smooth and progressive transfer of power from ski to ski.

Through maintaining high tension in the feet and ankles with tipping and dori/plantar flexion while “relaxing” your legs, hips, abs, spine and shoulders, things will become automated and effortless. You are no longer responsible for much of the work that was once invested with so much physical effort and, instead of running to fly your kite, you can instead sit back and relax like a pilot at his set of controls. Though, if you use no pressure on that inside ski, nothing will happen and you will have to lift and lighten that leg and ski yourself. If that is your goal. As well, if you have too much pressure on the inside ski, at the wrong time, too early or late, you are likely either out of balance or not in complete control of the turn. When the ski itself becomes the primary input into the system of a ski turn, almost all the major movements of the body become outputs. When our upper body movements become outputs rather than inputs, the timing and rates of those movements become inherently accurate. When your major body movements are direct inputs, you are then required to judge the rate, timing, duration and intensity needed for the upcoming turn. Or, maybe you’re judging in advance of the next turn how much to shorten or lighten your leg? Again, hmmmmmm. If you are off with these judgments, especially timing, you will not have the ski pressure when needed. Release the body of the responsibility of that control and limit that upper body control to CoM/BoS relationship management, staying loose and in balance, you will find out how much more work you ski is willing and able to contribute.

Like good swordsmanship, the locus of control (primary kinesthetic focus and kinetic priority) is at the hands and wrist for which the kinetic path of movement through the rest of the body merely supports and responds. The weight, momentum and centrifugal rotation of the sword alone is the power that is wielded. It is not the swing of the arm but the tweak of the wrist that controls the sword's force reaction that will provide the swiftest and cleanest decapitation of your enemy’s head. I mean … let’s be realistic here.

Gotta say Doby Man that I was surprised at the above post as you are usually precise and articulate. You are 1000 percent right about action being from the bottom up and 1001 percent right about the need to create tension in the foot and ankle. In fact, your posts on this subject along with Ron Kipp's video has me thinking about creating a dynamic balance progression as part of my school's preliminaries repertoire. So I thank you or that and we have no disagreement here.

I do feel however, there was a mischaracterization of what JF's was saying in his "How to develop new Motor Patterns" video as a means to try and make your point. The whole theme of JF's video is about unloading the inside ski AS you are steering the outside ski. At 2:12 into the video, his exact quote is that "EDGING (not tipping) happens a result of the inside leg getting shorter" There is no way one can move laterally to stand on the sides of their feet without one leg becoming shorter than the other. Add in slope and the situation is compounded.

Now I totally agree that we need to work with the foot and ankles where the "rubber meets the road" but I don't know how to unload the vertical pressure under foot without invoking the muscles in my leg.

However, the real question is: Is inside ski unloading an active or reactive movement. My answer is that it depends! But since my advocacy has been that it is active I will plead my case as follows:

If you listen closely to what JF says he continually begins with both legs being equal in length. This condition can only happen when we are using gravity as our primary force for balance and our weight is equally distributed to both skis. As an instructor (not a race coach), we are constantly dealing with people who have a hard time leaving the force of gravity (as the force for balance) for the turning force of Centripetal. This is one of the reasons why it is hard to get a wedge skier to parallel. They can't reliably and sustainably "Unload" the inside ski. Once the inside ski can be unloaded in a sustained mode, much can be accomplished in terms of developing new edging (tipping) and rotary. This is why I choose the phrase "soften then shorten". In addition, asking the student to soften results in a subtle, lateral transference of pressure to the outside ski (PSIA fundamental #2).

At advanced levels and high velocities, the period for gravitational balance is but a small blip in time as we transition from Centripetal balance to Centripetal balance. So I totally understand where you are coming from as a race coach. At this level, inside ski unloading is a momentum play more than anything else. Finally, watch videos of any of the elites doing medium radius high speed turns and watch how much that inside leg shortens into the turn. I am way too old to be that flexible but I seriously doubt they achieved that flexion passively.

Having said all this, I would be remiss in not stating that no matter what, the inside ski is in constant contact with the surface just like your (inactive) foot does not leave the pedal of a bike.

As I have stated in past posts I am continually trying to find fundamental movement patterns that span the beginner and expert realms. But we are all on the same page when it comes to where the action is.

Regards,

 

[tinymoose]

And if you think about raising the little toe of the outside ski instead of pressing harder on the big toe edge, you will find the outside leg does not get stiff and any bracing diminishes while edge engagement remains.

Interesting. I'll have to keep this in mind to try this upcoming season. I know when I'm in terrain or conditions I'm uncomfortable with I revert to old, bad habits. One of those being that I sometimes brace on that outside/downhill ski.