Help me correct A-Frame

[Wendy]

Give them the same question I gave you.

"What would 'changing my relative leg position' do for me given this terrain and my intent, and why would that be good?"



There's a clue in this about the underlying opportunity for improvement in your fundamentals. The question to ask would be "why can't I do it on snow?".



The relative angle between your shins isn't an inherent problem. The ability to carve a turn at a given radius might be an opportunity to develop your skill set - and that *may* require greater tipping of the inside leg.

So again - how can you rephrase what you're looking to change in terms of outcome? What do you want to be able to do besides "look different than I do now"?




On a general philosophical note: "I wish my inside ski was tipped more" invites the response "Tip your inside ski more".

"I'm trying to tip my inside ski more but I can't" - leads to questions of:

• Where *can* you do it? (Statically: barefoot, in shoes, in boots, on skis not moving; on skis moving)?
• Are you aligned? (If you can't do it statically in ski boots but you can in shoes or barefoot - this might be the problem).
• Can your muscles move your leg to the position you want statically?
  
• If you can do it while not moving, but can't while moving, what's the mental/skill block?
  • Are you afraid of something happening?
  • Can you balance over just your outside ski?
  • Can you balance over just your inside ski?
  • Are you comfortable with totally flat skis (and the accompanying "squirrely" sensation that creates")?

OK....after a little testing....in bare feet, it’s a little harder to tip my left foot to the outside edge than it is to tip my right foot to the outside edge. I feel a bit of muscle strain on the inside of my left knee when doing this.

It definitely is worse when moving on snow, though. (Why is that)?.

I am not afraid of something happening. Maybe other than, in the recesses of my mind, reimbursing my left knee, which had a menusicus repair and rehab for sprained ACL.

I am comfortable on “squirrelly” flat skis.

What do I want to accomplish, other than looking better?

I’d like to be able to increase my edge angles when carving turns, and shape those turns better.

 

[skier]

I'm going to throw in the opposite advice, and I'm sure many here will disagree. If you've tried all that inside tipping, and it still isn't working then maybe you need a different focus. My bet is that you're afraid to commit to the edge angles on the bad side, so you keep that inside ski under you as a crutch to feel safe. The more you focus on that inside ski, even with the best intentions, the more it's staying underneath you to keep you safe. You have to build confidence building edge angles without needing that inside ski underneath you to feel safe. And, I think the best way to do that is to commit to the outside ski entirely. Learn to turn with just your outside ski. Once you are entirely comfortable turning on just that ski, then you will be able to put the inside ski wherever you want, because you don't have weight on it. Do drills where you lift the inside ski. Many racers have had this approach. No matter which approach you take, you should be able to ski with just one ski. It's a great skill to have, so nothing lost practicing. Many can't balance on just one ski and you can see shortcomings in their skiing because of it.

 

[razie]

The bad thing about the A-frame is that it normally indicates issues. Either setup issues like footbeds or alignment or technique issues like a lazy inside foot.

It is more common with women, given anatomical differences (wider hips).

Assuming the setup is ok, instead of just trying to tip the inside knee into the new turn, after you established balance on the new outside foot, focus on
un-tipping the old outside foot, to end the turn and then simply continue to tip it into the new turn!

 

[Zentune]

OK....after a little testing....in bare feet, it’s a little harder to tip my left foot to the outside edge than it is to tip my right foot to the outside edge. I feel a bit of muscle strain on the inside of my left knee when doing this.

It definitely is worse when moving on snow, though. (Why is that)?.

If you stand in your bare feet in your normal posture and relax for a few moments, where underfoot do you feel the pressure points under both feet? Is your weight more towards both heels or is the weight in the heel of one foot and in the forefoot of the other? Does one foot have more weight on it? Do you notice if your pelvis is rotated to the left or the right, or is it hiked on one side, shifted off to one side or the other....?

zenny

 

[LouD-Truckee]

I'm going to throw in the opposite advice, and I'm sure many here will disagree. If you've tried all that inside tipping, and it still isn't working then maybe you need a different focus. My bet is that you're afraid to commit to the edge angles on the bad side, so you keep that inside ski under you as a crutch to feel safe. The more you focus on that inside ski, even with the best intentions, the more it's staying underneath you to keep you safe. You have to build confidence building edge angles without needing that inside ski underneath you to feel safe. And, I think the best way to do that is to commit to the outside ski entirely. Learn to turn with just your outside ski. Once you are entirely comfortable turning on just that ski, then you will be able to put the inside ski wherever you want, because you don't have weight on it. Do drills where you lift the inside ski. Many racers have had this approach. No matter which approach you take, you should be able to ski with just one ski. It's a great skill to have, so nothing lost practicing. Many can't balance on just one ski and you can see shortcomings in their skiing because of it.

Winner !!!

 

[Philpug]

Have you considered something as simple as rolling the inside knee in?

 

[oldschoolskier]

First thing: it’s probably NOT due to a boot alignment issue, as I’ve had that examined by several good professionals. I am willing to have someone else take another look if somebody can give me specific advice regarding that issue.

Second thing: It drives me nuts. I can’t feel it, but I look awful in video.

I don’t have much video to share, @Large Squirrel may. I have one from Alta on my iPad, but I can’t seem to be able to post it here. Until I figure that out....

The problem is with my left leg, which also has some muscle imbalance that I’ve worked to correct, apparently without success. The old “use your hand to push your knee out” drill has never worked.

Then I came upon this:
I’m definitely the image on the left, ha. I’ll try this next season, but....

1) What works best to correct this?
2)What can I do now, in the summer, that might help?

Hi Wendy,

I never rule out alignment or stance alignment error until I see ski tracks. The reason is a lot of skiers have alignment/stance issue that are not there when checked at the ski shop (no offense Phil and others), I suspect is a little of slope nervousness (or something like that).

Do some runs flat straight and slow in different stances up right, knees bent, little tuck and so on (same section of hill). Get back and look at you tracks. If your tracks are not flat or one edge is more prominent than others you have something wrong alignment/stance wise (take photos of the tracks and show your shop guys). Ideally skiing flat should feel like your ski floats and shimmies as if you have no edges. Feel like you have control, you are on an edge.

Secondly, hip dump causes this same symptom. Trick is to roll onto the edge knees first, stay a little more upright (get lower later after you master rolling). If it feels un-natural it is likely right.

Third item, 360 drills will give you edge feel and control (helps you correct balance/alignment/stance issues) as you get comfortable with these drills you will self correct a lot of stance issues through balance and edge awareness.

Finally if you can ski with great instructor, they will see the issue better than you can and correct alignment/stance/technique issues. The really good ones fit boots as well.

 

[Wendy]

Have you considered something as simple as rolling the inside knee in?

Yes. I try to think about this.

 

[Wendy]

Hi Wendy,

I never rule out alignment or stance alignment error until I see ski tracks. The reason is a lot of skiers have alignment/stance issue that are not there when checked at the ski shop (no offense Phil and others), I suspect is a little of slope nervousness (or something like that).

Do some runs flat straight and slow in different stances up right, knees bent, little tuck and so on (same section of hill). Get back and look at you tracks. If your tracks are not flat or one edge is more prominent than others you have something wrong alignment/stance wise (take photos of the tracks and show your shop guys). Ideally skiing flat should feel like your ski floats and shimmies as if you have no edges. Feel like you have control, you are on an edge.

Secondly, hip dump causes this same symptom. Trick is to roll onto the edge knees first, stay a little more upright (get lower later after you master rolling). If it feels un-natural it is likely right.

Third item, 360 drills will give you edge feel and control (helps you correct balance/alignment/stance issues) as you get comfortable with these drills you will self correct a lot of stance issues through balance and edge awareness.

Finally if you can ski with great instructor, they will see the issue better than you can and correct alignment/stance/technique issues. The really good ones fit boots as well.

What is “hip dump?” How do I know if I’m doing that?

 

[Wendy]

If you stand in your bare feet in your normal posture and relax for a few moments, where underfoot do you feel the pressure points under both feet? Is your weight more towards both heels or is the weight in the heel of one foot and in the forefoot of the other? Does one foot have more weight on it? Do you notice if your pelvis is rotated to the left or the right, or is it hiked on one side, shifted off to one side or the other....?

zenny

My feet feel evenly pressured on balls of feet and heels, I *may* put more weight on my right foot, but it’s hard to tell.

If I’m standing upright and being lazy, my pelvis tilts forward. (Lots of ab and back strengthening helps correct this, but it is my “natural” position without fitness).

My right hip is higher than the left. If I’m wearing a skirt, after walking around awhile the skirt will rotate around about 90 degrees. Very annoying. (I’m sure this sounds weird to the guys on here

 

[Wendy]

Hi Wendy,

I never rule out alignment or stance alignment error until I see ski tracks. The reason is a lot of skiers have alignment/stance issue that are not there when checked at the ski shop (no offense Phil and others), I suspect is a little of slope nervousness (or something like that).

Do some runs flat straight and slow in different stances up right, knees bent, little tuck and so on (same section of hill). Get back and look at you tracks. If your tracks are not flat or one edge is more prominent than others you have something wrong alignment/stance wise (take photos of the tracks and show your shop guys). Ideally skiing flat should feel like your ski floats and shimmies as if you have no edges. Feel like you have control, you are on an edge.

Secondly, hip dump causes this same symptom. Trick is to roll onto the edge knees first, stay a little more upright (get lower later after you master rolling). If it feels un-natural it is likely right.

Third item, 360 drills will give you edge feel and control (helps you correct balance/alignment/stance issues) as you get comfortable with these drills you will self correct a lot of stance issues through balance and edge awareness.

Finally if you can ski with great instructor, they will see the issue better than you can and correct alignment/stance/technique issues. The really good ones fit boots as well.

I have trouble doing 360’s to the right....I seem to catch an edge and end up only turning 180 degrees. To the left....easy peasy.

Skiing only on my left foot.....I go to the inside edge. Tipping that foot to the outside edge when on just that ski feels impossible.

However, on 2 skis, I feel flat. Skis get that squirrelly feel on flat run outs (Interestingly, this was the first change I noticed when switching from my Lange boots to my Tecnicas).

I agree about finding an instructor. It’s hard to find one with that knowledge around here. I was led down many paths, leading to great frustration and tears, by my technical director at the ski school where I was an L1 instructor for 2 seasons. No one else there could help me either. (One of the reasons I quit instructing....I had an issue no one could help me with and The technical director made me feel like a disabled person).

I probably should look for an instructor who can help me out West.

A well known, good bootfitter in VT canted my boots about 3 degrees on the left foot and it made the problem worse. Moreover, I ended up with so much hip pain after several weeks It hurt to walk. My boot fitter here told me, when he saw me in those boots, “ You look like shit in those boots”, LOL. He helped me a lot, but he recognizes he can’t fix the issue. (He tells me to just ski and have fun). I agree, but I’d like to improve, and this issue seems to be the barrier.

 

[Zentune]

My feet feel evenly pressured on balls of feet and heels, I *may* put more weight on my right foot, but it’s hard to tell.

If I’m standing upright and being lazy, my pelvis tilts forward. (Lots of ab and back strengthening helps correct this, but it is my “natural” position without fitness).

My right hip is higher than the left. If I’m wearing a skirt, after walking around awhile the skirt will rotate around about 90 degrees. Very annoying. (I’m sure this sounds weird to the guys on here

I suspected it might be something like that....

Without seeing you ski or in person at all, but with reading your comments here, it sounds to me as if you may have both feet ‘stuck’ in pronation, the left more so than the right. This is why your pelvis seems hiked on the right, it’s probably actually shifted a bit to the right which tends to put more weight in the foot that it’s shifted towards (right) which can have the effect of raising that side of the pelvis. Another clue here is the forward (anterior) tipped pelvis. The rotating skirt could actually be another clue, related to differences in stride length and/or a rotated pelvis. This is pretty common. My right foot is more pronated than my left, whereas my left is ‘stuck’ in neutral due to surgery for a broken fibula/ankle.

Since your pelvis may be shifted right, your left hip is likely stuck in abduction, but on a pronating foot. Abduction ideally occurs on a foot that is moving towards supination. As a result you have used up much of your abduction range and therefore cannot further roll that knee into the turn while skiing.

Just a thought, may or may not be accurate, but seeing as how you’ve had alignement done, and based on your barefoot stance, it could be worth looking at.

zenny

 

[rcc55125]

But I can’t straight run on my left foot.....it goes into a turn as my foot is forced onto the inside edge....

This is telling. Your alignment at the foot and knee is probably fine, you've had a lot of boot work done. When you flex in the shop your knee probably tracks straight. From an alignment standpoint everything is perfect.
Do right turns, left foot DH, initiate easier than left turns, right foot DH?
What about on two skis in a straight glide on a gentle slope? Is there a slight line in the snow from the inside edge of the left ski? If so it may not be your boot/foot alignment but rather a leg length or hip alignment (tilt) issue. A leg length or hip angle issue is really hard so see on the bench. I'm not talking a lot just a few millimeters.
However, excessive pressure on the inside edge of the left ski may mean your center of mass is tracking inside your base of support in your case more toward your right foot.
If when you glide on two skis on a gentle slope you should get two even ski tracks where you can see a full ski width track for each ski and no inside or outside edge. This means your flat. This requires soft groomed snow but not powder or hard pack. You want to be able to see two distinct ski tracks.

Should you see a sharp line from the inside edge of the left ski and the outside edge is a smeary uneven line you can try shimming under the right boot, between the boot and binding. Plastic is best but even duct tape folded into a 1 mm shim will work. I think 4 layers of duct tape is 1 mm. This is only for testing. 2 mm would be the max for a test. The idea is you are moving your CoM more to the center of your BoS. I've seen this issue corrected with less than a 2 mm shim on the opposite foot. Now if the two ski glide shows an improved track try making some gentle turns. Don't ski much or very hard with these shims it could be dangerous, it's only for testing. Does it now feel easier to initiate a left turn? If all this pans out it's back to the boot fitter. Tell them what you've done and have them make a shim for the foot bed of the right boot. You could also have sole plates made thicker on the right side. The boot fitter can tell you what the best solution is.

If this shimming seems to improve things but 2 mm is still not enough a alternative maybe a visit to a non-surgicial sports medicine doctor is in order. This would really answer your questions about body alignment or leg length.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I have trouble doing 360’s to the right....I seem to catch an edge and end up only turning 180 degrees. To the left....easy peasy.

Skiing only on my left foot.....I go to the inside edge. Tipping that foot to the outside edge when on just that ski feels impossible.

However, on 2 skis, I feel flat. Skis get that squirrelly feel on flat run outs (Interestingly, this was the first change I noticed when switching from my Lange boots to my Tecnicas).

I agree about finding an instructor. It’s hard to find one with that knowledge around here. I was led down many paths, leading to great frustration and tears, by my technical director at the ski school where I was an L1 instructor for 2 seasons. No one else there could help me either. (One of the reasons I quit instructing....I had an issue no one could help me with and The technical director made me feel like a disabled person).

I probably should look for an instructor who can help me out West.

A well known, good bootfitter in VT canted my boots about 3 degrees on the left foot and it made the problem worse. Moreover, I ended up with so much hip pain after several weeks It hurt to walk. My boot fitter here told me, when he saw me in those boots, “ You look like shit in those boots”, LOL. He helped me a lot, but he recognizes he can’t fix the issue. (He tells me to just ski and have fun). I agree, but I’d like to improve, and this issue seems to be the barrier.

Sorry for the sequence.

Squirrelly is very good. Indicates that at least you are neutral going straight.

Hip dump is dropping the hip to get on the edge tend to get you inside and off balance, feels right but is wrong.

Spins on way versus the other. Well that’s a little more about coordination and balance. Practice side slip drills on weak side with some rotation. Get the feel and confidence.

@Zetune advise re other issues (leg length) could be part of it. I have a misalignment on my right leg due to a break, however I’ve compensated by practice and don’t notice it. So this is worth while looking at.

No good instructors, that sucks, however get a friend to video you and review it, you’ll likely see your errors, try and correct, video and review.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Maybe thinking about the inside foot would make moving the inside knee easier. I think about raising the arch inside the boot to tip toward the little toe side. If I think about pressing the little toe down, my leg tends to stiffen.

 

[Wendy]

This is telling. Your alignment at the foot and knee is probably fine, you've had a lot of boot work done. When you flex in the shop your knee probably tracks straight. From an alignment standpoint everything is perfect.
Do right turns, left foot DH, initiate easier than left turns, right foot DH?
What about on two skis in a straight glide on a gentle slope? Is there a slight line in the snow from the inside edge of the left ski? If so it may not be your boot/foot alignment but rather a leg length or hip alignment (tilt) issue. A leg length or hip angle issue is really hard so see on the bench. I'm not talking a lot just a few millimeters.
However, excessive pressure on the inside edge of the left ski may mean your center of mass is tracking inside your base of support in your case more toward your right foot.
If when you glide on two skis on a gentle slope you should get two even ski tracks where you can see a full ski width track for each ski and no inside or outside edge. This means your flat. This requires soft groomed snow but not powder or hard pack. You want to be able to see two distinct ski tracks.

Should you see a sharp line from the inside edge of the left ski and the outside edge is a smeary uneven line you can try shimming under the right boot, between the boot and binding. Plastic is best but even duct tape folded into a 1 mm shim will work. I think 4 layers of duct tape is 1 mm. This is only for testing. 2 mm would be the max for a test. The idea is you are moving your CoM more to the center of your BoS. I've seen this issue corrected with less than a 2 mm shim on the opposite foot. Now if the two ski glide shows an improved track try making some gentle turns. Don't ski much or very hard with these shims it could be dangerous, it's only for testing. Does it now feel easier to initiate a left turn? If all this pans out it's back to the boot fitter. Tell them what you've done and have them make a shim for the foot bed of the right boot. You could also have sole plates made thicker on the right side. The boot fitter can tell you what the best solution is.

If this shimming seems to improve things but 2 mm is still not enough a alternative maybe a visit to a non-surgicial sports medicine doctor is in order. This would really answer your questions about body alignment or leg length.

Thank you. I’ve made notes on all of these points for the beginning of next season.

 

[Wendy]

This is telling. Your alignment at the foot and knee is probably fine, you've had a lot of boot work done. When you flex in the shop your knee probably tracks straight. From an alignment standpoint everything is perfect.
Do right turns, left foot DH, initiate easier than left turns, right foot DH?
What about on two skis in a straight glide on a gentle slope? Is there a slight line in the snow from the inside edge of the left ski? If so it may not be your boot/foot alignment but rather a leg length or hip alignment (tilt) issue. A leg length or hip angle issue is really hard so see on the bench. I'm not talking a lot just a few millimeters.
However, excessive pressure on the inside edge of the left ski may mean your center of mass is tracking inside your base of support in your case more toward your right foot.
If when you glide on two skis on a gentle slope you should get two even ski tracks where you can see a full ski width track for each ski and no inside or outside edge. This means your flat. This requires soft groomed snow but not powder or hard pack. You want to be able to see two distinct ski tracks.

Should you see a sharp line from the inside edge of the left ski and the outside edge is a smeary uneven line you can try shimming under the right boot, between the boot and binding. Plastic is best but even duct tape folded into a 1 mm shim will work. I think 4 layers of duct tape is 1 mm. This is only for testing. 2 mm would be the max for a test. The idea is you are moving your CoM more to the center of your BoS. I've seen this issue corrected with less than a 2 mm shim on the opposite foot. Now if the two ski glide shows an improved track try making some gentle turns. Don't ski much or very hard with these shims it could be dangerous, it's only for testing. Does it now feel easier to initiate a left turn? If all this pans out it's back to the boot fitter. Tell them what you've done and have them make a shim for the foot bed of the right boot. You could also have sole plates made thicker on the right side. The boot fitter can tell you what the best solution is.

If this shimming seems to improve things but 2 mm is still not enough a alternative maybe a visit to a non-surgicial sports medicine doctor is in order. This would really answer your questions about body alignment or leg length.

Just to clarify.....is the shim placed under the center of my boot heel and toe? So this would be correcting for a leg length discrepancy, right?
I’ve played with duct tape shims before....on the inside of my boot heel to see if that helped my alignment....it didn’t.

 

[Rod9301]

I'd suggest one leg drills. Take a ski off (or lift if off the snow) requiring you to make left and right turns with one ski only. Do it on your right ski first so you have a baseline. Then do it with your left. It won't be the same but you'll certainly feel difference. I suspect that your left leg, with its muscle imbalance, just isn't strong enough to engage the little toe edge. You will really need to work hard to make the turn to the left on your left leg as smooth and strong as your right turn on your right ski. I do this drill every early season whenever I'm on flats or just feeling bored. When you are only on one ski the deficiency of your little toe turns will become quite obvious to you and you'll also know when you are making progress.

If, as you say, there is a muscle imbalance you will have to work very hard to gain symmetry between left and right. Strength exercises to overcome the imbalance will help as well.

In reading @Magi 's comment 'The relative angle between your shins isn't an inherent problem. ', I agree. The problem with an a-frame isn't that your ski isn't tracking or performing (especially while racing where you typically want to be outside leg dominant) but that it prevents you from building angles that you want. The inside leg, when not tipped into the turn, begins to take more pressure than desired and in doing so removes pressure from the outside ski and thus weakens the turn. In other words, your inside leg, when a-framing, supports your body more than you want and prevents you from balancing on the inside edge of the outside ski.

Exactly.

 

[rcc55125]

Use two shims. One under the toe and one under the heel. You want to raise the entire boot. The heel usually presents some problems because of the ski brake.

 

[Jilly]

Interesting to see the ski instructors who are "off season" commenting on this. All is good though!