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Helmets and Testing

martyg

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If you are after a new helmet and wondering which one will offer the most protection, this article featuring VA Tech's third party, independent testing program is a must read.

The money quote from the article:

"Realistically, it’s all but impossible to arrive at a point where every helmet manufacturer is measuring to the same yardstick. Nor is there any incentive for them to do so – especially when they can construct their own marketing narrative with their own test results."
 

AmyPJ

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I kind of thought the money quote was about the drastic improvements in safety thanks to MIPS and yes, WaveCell, for which every helmet with that tech was rated in what, the top 20?

That plus the notation that there are a lot of other factors that play into helmet safety, including whether it actually fits your head.

At the very least, it does appear that MIPS really does make a difference.
 

Tom K.

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I can't quite buy into the somewhat cynical approach articulated by the "Nor is there any incentive for them to do so – especially when they can construct their own marketing narrative with their own test results. " comment.

Most reputable helmet manufacturers choose a set of standards and design to them. You can't fault them for the fact that different standards exist, and are argued about.

What I CAN buy into is how amazingly superior today's helmets are to those of ~10 years ago. I'm looking forward to 10 more years of that!
 

EricG

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@martyg - I’m not a member of that site. Can you post more of the details from the article?
 
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martyg

martyg

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I can't quite buy into the somewhat cynical approach articulated by the "Nor is there any incentive for them to do so – especially when they can construct their own marketing narrative with their own test results. " comment.

Most reputable helmet manufacturers choose a set of standards and design to them. You can't fault them for the fact that different standards exist, and are argued about.

What I CAN buy into is how amazingly superior today's helmets are to those of ~10 years ago. I'm looking forward to 10 more years of that!

Yes you can (blame them).

Have you sat on any ASTM committees that determines how products are tested? Do you know who is on those committees? Industry people who generally want the lowest bar possible to avoid liability.

Read this brief for a bit of background on where helmet litigation is going. It will force brand's to raise their bar:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/laws...cAvPsv6UG-8-UGZHvuYuqZvwiYGXq97z2Y77oItRWI5Wc
 

Tom K.

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Yes you can (blame them).

Have you sat on any ASTM committees that determines how products are tested? Do you know who is on those committees? Industry people who generally want the lowest bar possible to avoid liability.

Read this brief for a bit of background on where helmet litigation is going. It will force brand's to raise their bar:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/laws...cAvPsv6UG-8-UGZHvuYuqZvwiYGXq97z2Y77oItRWI5Wc

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. I have firsthand knowledge of the way in which three different companies develop bike helmets, and the people involved are ASTOUNDINGLY passionate about improving protection.

They do not in any way "want the lowest bar possible to avoid liability".

We learn more every year (week?) about how much more serious what we used to call "moderate" head injuries are, and these guys are all over making things better in that regard.

May I offer this link to a kind of light-hearted, but dead serious, article about one of those companies?

https://element.ly/2015/09/kali-protectives-brad-waldron/
 

raytseng

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I listened to the GIRO's podcast on the subject (althogh a bit dated); it is relatively still relevant and worth your listen if you want to dig deeper.

https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/ep-19-whats-next-the-future-of-helmet-design
some relevant timestamp markers:
Why MIPS matters, but why Giro wasn’t an early adopter (20:15)
Helmet Standards & Certifications: Who sets them & How does it all Work? (25:10)
What is Giro doing different or better than other helmet companies out there? Why should someone buy a Giro helmet? (50:19)
What’s the real difference between a $60 helmet and a $250 helmet? (59:15)


The engineers can't just design to an higher "standard", because nobody will buy it due to fit, appearance, and non-safety based performance compared to the other helmets on the market. So unfortunately the standard is set, and it's a race to balance that against the other purchase factors in order for it to be useful.
From a technical protection standpoint, there is only small percentage in the difference of protection; as long as the helmet is in the same parameters and physics of 1.5 inch of foam or whatever the depth is for the market standard helmet+shell.
In order to make a noticeable difference in safety requires orders of magnitude of difference like doubling the depth of the foam in of the helmet, like wearing a motorcyle helmet or a football helmet, or a double sized helmet.

The sad truth is nobody is going to buy or use the double-sized helmet when all the other helmets aren't that thick and cumbersome; so the engineers good efforts would help approximately zero customers.

So, all name-brand certified helmets, top-of-theline-to basic; you should consider to be within the same Tier from a protection perspective, unless we finally see some company come out with helmets that are physically much bigger and bulkier.

So I am not suprised that this article comes out to the conclusion that the cheap helmet beat the fancy wave helmet in protection; this is the same revelation that the GIRO engineer explained about 3years ago.
The minute percentage differences in protection you can fight about, but in practice are insignificant differences lost in the noise in the type of falls that occurs and how you score each one.

[I do think the wave helmet article above may take a bit of a clickbait pose in that the cheaper helmet "beats" the other thing, to be more intellectually honest, I would agree more with the GIRO engineer's categorizaton ALL the helmets are protection relatively "equally" in the same tier, and none are significantly better or worse. But that would mean all those star-ratings useless,]

The Giro engineer did indicate the bigger technologies such as MIPS; and perhaps the very new Koroyd have chances to be significantly different; but to be keen to not hop on to the latest thing, and really evaluate if it is different, or the physics are still the same that you can't do more without making the helmet bigger..

All this being said, having suffered a head injury with a helmet, don't expect it to be some kind of magic shield even if you get the fanciest helmet. Wearing a helmet doesn't have a significant downside during a fall and does possibly prevent worse damage, but it is like getting out of jail and rolling doubles in Monopoly. You only sometimes get out of it scott free; most of the time you're still going to get hurt.
It will also do absolutely nothing for your chin, mouth, teeth, tongue, eyes, nose etc, or rest of your body. it's not magic.
 
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Tricia

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The engineers can't just design to an higher "standard", because nobody will buy it due to fit, appearance, and non-safety based performance compared to the other helmets on the market. So unfortunately the standard is set,
The helmet @Philpug reviewed last year was in this category.
Very well built. Definitely has safety as the top priority, but it gives something up in appearance and weight.

6D ATB-1T EVO
 

Tom K.

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Funny, I was ready the excellent post by @raytseng and thinking that he was describing the exact problem that 6D has had with market penetration being size and the related aesthetic concerns, then the next post by @Tricia noted that exact helmet.

IMO, 6D and Kali really have it going on in terms of pretty fearlessly doing what they think is best (within reason), while companies like Bontrager and Smith are trying their best to eek more safety out of the style, fit, size and ventilation parameters that almost seem mandated by the buying public at this point.

Progress on both counts. Half my brain knows it should go for max reasonable protection, but the other half insists on really good ventilation and light-ish weight.
 

Tricia

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IMO, 6D and Kali really have it going on in terms of pretty fearlessly doing what they think is best
We looked at both of those helmets at Interbike. Yes both are bulky, in relation to some other brands, but they are also really impressive in terms of safety.
IMG_0008.jpeg
IMG_0009.jpeg
 
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martyg

martyg

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Sorry, I just don't see it that way. I have firsthand knowledge of the way in which three different companies develop bike helmets, and the people involved are ASTOUNDINGLY passionate about improving protection.

They do not in any way "want the lowest bar possible to avoid liability".

We learn more every year (week?) about how much more serious what we used to call "moderate" head injuries are, and these guys are all over making things better in that regard.

May I offer this link to a kind of light-hearted, but dead serious, article about one of those companies?

https://element.ly/2015/09/kali-protectives-brad-waldron/

The product developers and designers are. Those above them are much more focused ion business decisions.

Like you, I also have firsthand knowledge. Prior to "retirement" was one of the people who designed the products that people in this group use, and interacted heavily with ASTM and third party independent testing labs.
 

Tom K.

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The product developers and designers are. Those above them are much more focused ion business decisions.

Brad Waldron is the CEO of Kali. Perhaps the exception to your rule, but he certainly talks a passionately about no-compromises protection. I like it!

Marty, if you ever come through the Hood River, OR area, give me a shout. I suspect we could have some fun on mtbs.
 

Tricia

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Those won't be at all hot...
The point of these two helmets is safety first.
Phil can speak to that point about the 6D helmet.
 

raytseng

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i think the point of my rambling post is there already are more protective items not labelled as a bike/snow, but people already are choose not to use them. How come nobody uses full face helmets? How come road bikers are wearing basically skin depth spandex and not full body armor if its just about protection. So people are already not choosing absolute safety first.
Still having more options is better than less for the consumer, the market will show if people will buy it.

That being said one shouldn't feel like they are preparing for battle to mitigate low chances of risks. Nobody walks day to day down the street in a full suit of armor either even though you could be hit by a car and that armor will save you
 
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Tricia

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i think my rambling point is there already are more protective items not labelled as a bike/snow, but people already are choose not to use them. How come nobody uses full face helmets? How come road bikers are wearing basically skin depth spandex and not full body armor if its just about protection. So people are already not choosing absolute safety first.
Still having more options is better than less for the consumer, the market will show if people will buy it.

That being said one shouldn't feel like they are preparing for battle to mitigate low chances of risks. Nobody walks day to datly down the street in a full suit of armor either even though you could be hit by a car and that armor will save you
If we implemented the extra-analytical things int our skiing, biking and every day life the way we think about them and research them....it would take us 2 hrs to walk from the sofa to the door.

That being said, fit and comfort are key for me, or the chances of me leaving my helmet at home increase a ton.
 

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