Gear Heavy vs. Light AT Setups

[Snowflake2420]

Would you care to share where in the world you reside/generally ski? And tell us more about your Argentina trip as @Monique asked so I can live vicariously...or get a better sense of what you'll be facing. I wonder if a road bike or ultra-lightweight backpack analogy is appropriate... how much difference does 2 pounds really make?

I still need to read all the postings carefully to pick up learning points. Thanks for posting your questions, thought I'd share my limited experience. You sound much more experienced than I bc. Prior to 2016-17, I had 5 days over 5 seasons but so far have had 15 short days this seasons. Do take my comments with the above caveat.

Out of curiosity, I put my gear on a bathroom digital scale (in kg but will convert to imperial to compare against yours).
I'm 5"4" 115#, Dynafit Mercury 24.5 (6 lbs) + (G3 Zest 166 w/speed radical)= 15.4 lb, +(Voile Vector BC 160 w/Vipec 12) = 14.3lb

I don't appreciate the one pound difference at all, but not needing to put on skins on the new Voile setup (patterned/scaled) two weeks ago around Mammoth was thrilling and I absolutely LOVED the fast and simple transition from walk to ski mode using my pole.

I demo'ed @Tricia's Zelda 106 Alchemist (which I understand replaces Pure3 next season) at Whistler resort...didn't know what to do with the skis and blame it on operator error. She thought I might enjoy the "warmer" feel of the Foundation line better. I rate myself as an advanced adventuresome skier.

I don't quite trust my Zest on firmer and steeper condition yet although I haven't worried much on my local rolling terrain. I think of Yvette for soft Hokkaido powder, as I skied with a gal at Niseko inbound on Yvette Pure3.

Let us know what you end up deciding, better yet, please post and share an Argentina bc trip report with us!

@Monique, 4 years ago a Black Diamond store staff in SLC told me in general, BD has wider last than Dynafit than Scarpa. Maybe a gently used pair of BD AT boots can be found online...

I live in Denver, CO and am a Front Range weekend warrior. I learned to ski on the ice coast, but really advanced once I moved out to CO a couple years ago and skied a lot. Last year I completed my Avy 1 course. I feel very confident on just about anything inbounds, but I'm not doing crazy stuff like launching off cornices or cliffs haha. My favorite areas to ski are A Basin, Loveland, Steamboat. I really like skis I can smear (thus why I like rocker) but also can hold an edge when I need to. The La Nina's do this surprisingly well despite significant rocker in tip and tail. My understanding of the Argentina trip (SASS Global Travel) is we'll be utilizing lifts and then backcountry touring from there to whatever strikes our fancy, ex. one group may want to practice cliff drops, while another wants to cruise trees. The company will have a demo fleet of Folsom skis, not sure how much selection they'll have in my size, with frame bindings. This is more of a "freeride" trip utilizing touring than strictly touring. I think I've pretty much made up my mind that I value downhill performance and my boards vs. saving the weight. I'll just have to get in better shape!

 

[karlo]

I (SASS Global Travel) !

You won't be doing any heavy BC. Choose the cheapest option. Save your $'s for the gear suited to the kind of BC you eventually find yourself doing most. From the starting setup, you'll know if you need something much lighter.

Kingpins are a great choice. Skis like an alpine binding. And, they'll fit the mounting pattern of Volkl touring skis if you ultimately decide on those. But, get used inexpensive frame bindings for your Nordica's if that's the cheapest way to go. I got a pair of Fischer (Tyrolia) bindings for my Eastern touring setup. Light, and I can go back and forth between my touring and alpine boots.

Oh, and make sure your backpack can hold your skis. More than likely, you'll be doing some boot packing, in addition to skinning. And, cheap skins for now.

And, tune your skis before going. You may not be happy with what you can get there.

 

[James]

Coming from very little experience, It's somewhat hard to evaluate tourers statements of lightweight skis performance claims. Hoji? Well perhaps my slalom skis should make me ski like Mikaela. That 's not happening.

I suspect those that go light get sucked into a spiral that lighter is always better. And light begets light. Shave 100 gms off a ski now the boot has to be even lighter and how much can we cut off the binding? Can we make carbon fiber tissue and make boots out of that? I find it very hard to believe that a ski that weighs almost nothing has much performance. From what I hear, they don't. In short, they're bad and that's being nice. Same for the boots. Performance means skiing downhill otherwise it's a long snow shoe, no?

I agree. AT boots have come a long way, too.

I'm not a big fan of comprising my skiing. When I tour the quality of the descent is paramount. That's why until this year, I've used alpine boots. Lange's XT FreeTour comes very close to responding like a full alpine boot. Next year Atomic will be introducing a Hawx variant about which the boot fitters in the shop I work in said: You'll want to sell your Langes next year and get the Atomic.
I might not sell the Langes but I'm certainly looking forward to trying the Atomic.

If you like the down, ^^ I'd go with that. Doug can ski.

Ok, flame away! Tourers might as well argue about something other than who's pipe to use...

 

[Snowflake2420]

You won't be doing any heavy BC. Choose the cheapest option. Save your $'s for the gear suited to the kind of BC you eventually find yourself doing most. From the starting setup, you'll know if you need something much lighter.

Kingpins are a great choice. Skis like an alpine binding. And, they'll fit the mounting pattern of Volkl touring skis if you ultimately decide on those. But, get used inexpensive frame bindings for your Nordica's if that's the cheapest way to go. I got a pair of Fischer (Tyrolia) bindings for my Eastern touring setup. Light, and I can go back and forth between my touring and alpine boots.

Oh, and make sure your backpack can hold your skis. More than likely, you'll be doing some boot packing, in addition to skinning. And, cheap skins for now.

And, tune your skis before going. You may not be happy with what you can get there.

Thanks for the feedback. I've toured on both frame and tech bindings and don't think I can ever go back to frame bindings I'm fine with having multiple sets of skis. Yesterday I was out on Icelantic Maiden 155s with Dynafit Radical FT Bindings. I felt good after three runs. I saw someone on light gear (they were clearly in it for the tour vs. the turns) and the turns did not look very enjoyable. The Maidens performed rather well, however, on the way down I was thinking "gee this would be even more fun on my powder skis." I resort ski and tour in CO (mainly front range) and think I'd be pretty happy with the La Nina's as a touring set up too. I can get some good closeout prices on the La Nina Marker Kingpin combo right now.

 

[karlo]

. I can get some good closeout prices on the La Nina Marker Kingpin combo right now.

A ski you love mounted with a great binding at a good price, what else can you ask for. Hope you post your Argentina experience.

 

[Mothertucker]

Coming from very little experience, It's somewhat hard to evaluate tourers statements of lightweight skis performance claims. Hoji? Well perhaps my slalom skis should make me ski like Mikaela. That 's not happening.

I suspect those that go light get sucked into a spiral that lighter is always better. And light begets light. Shave 100 gms off a ski now the boot has to be even lighter and how much can we cut off the binding? Can we make carbon fiber tissue and make boots out of that? I find it very hard to believe that a ski that weighs almost nothing has much performance. From what I hear, they don't. In short, they're bad and that's being nice. Same for the boots. Performance means skiing downhill otherwise it's a long snow shoe, no?



If you like the down, ^^ I'd go with that. Doug can ski.

Ok, flame away! Tourers might as well argue about something other than who's pipe to use...

http://www.jediahporter.com/2017/05/red-line-traverse-gear.html And I'll take stoners over drunks on the slopes, every time.

 

[pais alto]

http://www.jediahporter.com/2017/05/red-line-traverse-gear.html And I'll take stoners over drunks on the slopes, every time.

That guy used super-light gear, and it sure seemed to work for him, but I'd lean more toward the mid-weight gear personally just for a (probably only perceived) margin of reliability and ease on the downhill.

 

[Snowflake2420]

A ski you love mounted with a great binding at a good price, what else can you ask for. Hope you post your Argentina experience.

For sure! It will be a great way for me to push myself in a fun environment!

 

[Doug Briggs]

http://www.jediahporter.com/2017/05/red-line-traverse-gear.html And I'll take stoners over drunks on the slopes, every time.

Jediah (the guy in the link) is ski mountaineering. His entire kit is ultralight gear, not just his skiing gear, and he seems to have made a grand trip of it. In his own words, though, "Race skis do fine downhill when it is firm. And uphill? Like a dream." (emphasis mine)

My goal in touring is to access either deep fresh powder or spring corn. I'm happy with my choices of gear. It appears Jediah is happy with his. It really comes down to what you want to achieve and what you are prepared to sacrifice to achieve it.

Jediah was willing to sacrifice the descent for being ultra-light. It seems like a good decision given that fatigue can cause a trip to fail as much as gear failure can. I'm willing to sacrifice energy for the descent.

Different strokes for different folks.

(I'm not sure where the stoners/drunks fits in. Did I miss a post?)

 

[Mothertucker]

Jediah (the guy in the link) is ski mountaineering. His entire kit is ultralight gear, not just his skiing gear, and he seems to have made a grand trip of it. In his own words, though, "Race skis do fine downhill when it is firm. And uphill? Like a dream." (emphasis mine)

My goal in touring is to access either deep fresh powder or spring corn. I'm happy with my choices of gear. It appears Jediah is happy with his. It really comes down to what you want to achieve and what you are prepared to sacrifice to achieve it.

Jediah was willing to sacrifice the descent for being ultra-light. It seems like a good decision given that fatigue can cause a trip to fail as much as gear failure can. I'm willing to sacrifice energy for the descent.

Different strokes for different folks.

(I'm not sure where the stoners/drunks fits in. Did I miss a post?)

Maybe my perception of James's last statement was off base... it may have been made tongue in cheek. All I am saying is select the right tool for the job, hopefully the tool you pick will handle the conditions you encounter. As others have indicated, there is a ton of good gear on the market now, much of it in the middle ground.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Ahh. I read the reference to pipes when it was posted but missed it on re-reading.

 

[Monique]

I am now picturing a ski tourer skinning up while puffing on a Meerschaum ...

 

[Doug Briggs]

Or Hannes Schnieder:

 

[Mothertucker]

I just smoke my plate binding buddies on the up.

 

[Monique]

Or Hannes Schnieder:

I don't even .... what am I looking at??

 

[Doug Briggs]

I don't even .... what am I looking at??

That is a poster/post card of Hannes Schneider. Hannes was (slightly) famous for his pipe. He also was from an age when you often toured to ski.

 

[Mothertucker]

That is a poster/post card of Hannes Schneider. Hannes was (slightly) famous for his pipe. He also was from an age when you often toured to ski.

And he was obviously a bunny magnet!

 

[Monique]

Yeah, it was the bunnies that left me befuddled.

 

[Snowflake2420]

Just a follow up on this thread. I've procured the La Ninas with Kingpins and am very happy. A few weeks ago I toured Hoosier Pass on a different set up Icelantic Maidens with Dynafit TLTs. A moderate weight set up. I hadn't ridden Maidens in some time and I was left just wanting a little more from the ski on the down. I think part of this was turned up tails and the subsequent heels washing out feeling. Not a surprise. Not sure if it was a combo of the Dynafits too.

This past weekend I toured the Geisslers on Independence Pass with my new (basically resort) set up, i.e. Nordica La Nina 161 with Marker Kingpin 10. I could indeed feel the weight difference, however, it was still comfortable. Even after climbing 3 hours I did not feel dead. I think part of this is due to the Kingpin weight (not super light but moderate) and the tech toe piece allowing for efficient touring. It was worth hauling these up for the downhill performance. I felt much more comfortable on this ski and I think the Kingpin is a good choice for a wide ski like the La Ninas.

I even took them out the next day at A Basin to see how they did at the resort and it was like I was skiing on my alpine bindings. I could really drive the ski, which is what I wanted to be able to do. Maybe over the next couple years I'll find a lighter ski that does this for me, but for now I'm pretty darn satisfied.

Will post pics when I have more time.

 

[Monique]

Just a follow up on this thread. I've procured the La Ninas with Kingpins and am very happy. A few weeks ago I toured Hoosier Pass on a different set up Icelantic Maidens with Dynafit TLTs. A moderate weight set up. I hadn't ridden Maidens in some time and I was left just wanting a little more from the ski on the down. I think part of this was turned up tails and the subsequent heels washing out feeling. Not a surprise. Not sure if it was a combo of the Dynafits too.

This past weekend I toured the Geisslers on Independence Pass with my new (basically resort) set up, i.e. Nordica La Nina 161 with Marker Kingpin 10. I could indeed feel the weight difference, however, it was still comfortable. Even after climbing 3 hours I did not feel dead. I think part of this is due to the Kingpin weight (not super light but moderate) and the tech toe piece allowing for efficient touring. It was worth hauling these up for the downhill performance. I felt much more comfortable on this ski and I think the Kingpin is a good choice for a wide ski like the La Ninas.

I even took them out the next day at A Basin to see how they did at the resort and it was like I was skiing on my alpine bindings. I could really drive the ski, which is what I wanted to be able to do. Maybe over the next couple years I'll find a lighter ski that does this for me, but for now I'm pretty darn satisfied.

Will post pics when I have more time.

<3 my La Ninas. They were too wide for my recovering knee this season, but I'm hoping my knee will be more cooperative next season! They do so well in so many conditions.