• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

CalG

Out on the slopes
Pass Pulled
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Posts
1,962
Location
Vt
Here in Vermont we have had a recent sour weather event that has put down several inches of "sugar sand" over some mighty hard and slick base. (Eastern blue ice)

I've had some very enjoyable runs through what could be treacherous if not unrewarding conditions.

A soft touch is needed when making turns to limit the loud grinding that emits when ski bases come hard on icy trail base. A heads up approach is required to optimize the selected path through the old bumps and new wind drift patterns. Most importantly, one needs to be "on top of your skis" to be sure that every turn is made with BOTH skis working together. Much like in powder snow.

All in all,the few details that make for pleasant skiing through and over these rather unique snow conditions can be boiled down to a simple phrase. PAY ATTENTION!

But then, isn't that where the rewards in any activity are obtained?
 

frontfive

Ski Adventure 19/20
Contributor
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Posts
262
Location
NH
Great description! I felt the aftermath of the recent thaw/freeze cyclic weather this was like sking on a rock solid frozen ribeye with freezer burn. And yes we must all pay attention! Ive helped my share of novices inch their way guarded over ice (happy to do this anytime), and also came close to be wiped out myself by out of control snowplowers going way too fast on trails they dont belong on
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
There is no grinding on sharp skis, love this stuff except for the freezing fog.
 

Jim Kenney

Travel Correspondent
Team Gathermeister
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Posts
3,659
Location
VA
I had a most unusual run in heavy snow last spring at Snowbird, UT. I went into Ski Patrol Gully on the far skier's left of Mineral Basin on an afternoon when there was nobody around. The snow was like four inches of dippin' dots on top of four inches of soft serve ice cream. You'd sink in and get stuck or tripped-up if you turned too aggressively, but if you kind of went with it and did long GS turns it was really fun. Later I asked a patroler "what do you call that kind of snow." He said "corn". But corn didn't seem adequate to me. Maybe corn on steroids or quicksand? It was so weirdly good that I went back for a second run just before closing time.
 

Rod9301

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Posts
2,482
I had a most unusual run in heavy snow last spring at Snowbird, UT. I went into Ski Patrol Gully on the far skier's left of Mineral Basin on an afternoon when there was nobody around. The snow was like four inches of dippin' dots on top of four inches of soft serve ice cream. You'd sink in and get stuck or tripped-up if you turned too aggressively, but if you kind of went with it and did long GS turns it was really fun. Later I asked a patroler "what do you call that kind of snow." He said "corn". But corn didn't seem adequate to me. Maybe corn on steroids or quicksand? It was so weirdly good that I went back for a second run just before closing time.
I think you get tripped with a shorter radius ski because your right is not fully on the outside ski.

No reason why you couldn't make really short turns in any conditions
 

Unpiste

Booting down
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Posts
587
Location
California
I thought the conditions in Northwestern MA yesterday were great fun. Almost like skiing corn, with a few slick patches thrown in on the steeps to keep you on your toes. (But temps there were warm enough to soften the upper layer as it was scraped clean.)

Today at Stratton was a little more interesting. Ran into one run with several inches of fresh on top of chopped up, ice-coated bumps. Fun, if you get the rhythm right. Otherwise was a mix of soft with patches of boilerplate thrown in. Good practice for really getting the edges in at the top of the turn.
 
Last edited:

PNWRod

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Posts
301
Location
Crystal Mtn
I had a most unusual run in heavy snow last spring at Snowbird, UT. I went into Ski Patrol Gully on the far skier's left of Mineral Basin on an afternoon when there was nobody around. The snow was like four inches of dippin' dots on top of four inches of soft serve ice cream. You'd sink in and get stuck or tripped-up if you turned too aggressively, but if you kind of went with it and did long GS turns it was really fun. Later I asked a patroler "what do you call that kind of snow." He said "corn". But corn didn't seem adequate to me. Maybe corn on steroids or quicksand? It was so weirdly good that I went back for a second run just before closing time.
Doesn't sound the like the corn I know. Corn is almost like hero snow as you can rip it up and have tons of fun especially in the bumps. I'm thinking you are describing what we have in the PNW and it's more like sticky cream cheese. You ride 8+" of cream cheese same way, GS turns, no quick movements and a bit of speed to get up on top a bit. Great fun and lots of grins.
 
Thread Starter
TS
CalG

CalG

Out on the slopes
Pass Pulled
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Posts
1,962
Location
Vt
I think you get tripped with a shorter radius ski because your right is not fully on the outside ski.

No reason why you couldn't make really short turns in any conditions

Short turns in heavy snow or breaking crust will have you going nowhere in a big hurry.
 

Mattadvproject

Love that powder!
Industry Insider
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,114
Location
Granby, CO
Here in Vermont we have had a recent sour weather event that has put down several inches of "sugar sand" over some mighty hard and slick base. (Eastern blue ice)

I've had some very enjoyable runs through what could be treacherous if not unrewarding conditions.

A soft touch is needed when making turns to limit the loud grinding that emits when ski bases come hard on icy trail base. A heads up approach is required to optimize the selected path through the old bumps and new wind drift patterns. Most importantly, one needs to be "on top of your skis" to be sure that every turn is made with BOTH skis working together. Much like in powder snow.

All in all,the few details that make for pleasant skiing through and over these rather unique snow conditions can be boiled down to a simple phrase. PAY ATTENTION!

But then, isn't that where the rewards in any activity are obtained?

This reminds me a little about skiing and teaching back in Australia (Mt. Hotham in Victoria) during 2000 to 2009. We used to experience similar snow conditions on most warmer days (which could be anytime of the season, not just spring) when it would start off frozen and then by early afternoon it would turn into a field of granular quicksand and mush bumps that many people struggled to turn in. There was a lot of man-made snow in that gully and a very high traffic area and conditions could vary greatly during the day.

The worst run for this would be on a run called Slalom Gully, a blue run that had 17 other steeper blues and black runs feeding into it. It was one massive big human terrain trap and once you were in it, you had to ski the run to get to other chairs (Heavenly Valley chair which was an important connector or the Village chair to get back to the resort which funnily enough is towards the top of the mountain!).

For the ski school, this was officially designated as non-teaching terrain, that is your goal was to just try and get your group down it in one piece. Often that would involve sending the clients down first to a designated meeting spot halfway down at the side of the trail where you could re-group so you could ski down last and pick up the pieces. Here's a video (not mine, taken from YouTube) that gives you a little feel for the terrain (only shows some of the runs feeding into it, not all of them unfortunately):




It was a really nice run early in the morning when it was groomed and quiet and then by the afternoon, it was a whole different kettle of fish. We would run a 2 hour group lesson in the morning (10am - 12 noon) and then another 2 hour group lesson in the afternoon (1:30pm - 3:30pm). By the time the afternoon lessons started, some of the beginners who had been skiing up on the Summit in the morning lessons (our main green terrain) had the courage or at least the idea, that it was time to try an "easy blue." This involved taking the village loop all the way down from the top of the mountain down to the Village Trail and back up the Village Chair.

In order to do that, they had to ski down Slalom Gully and by the early afternoon, it was the quagmire I described previously. The afternoon rush would begin and there would be bodies everywhere when you got to Slalom Gully. Beginner skier and snowboarders would be crashing left right and center and intermediates would be having a hard time too. Making it through that safely was quite the achievement for most.

It was funny that few of the experienced instructors would want to take any of the intermediate groups in the afternoon. If they did that, then at some stage invariably they would end up having to take their group down Slalom Gully...... You either wanted a beginner group so you could stay safer and be up on the Summit green runs or an advanced group who could make it down Slalom and over to the Heavenly chair so you didn't have to go through that mush again! Back then there weren't so many fat skis (which would have made the mush easier to ski), but if your technique was sound (and no one took you out!), you could make it through just fine. Those were the days.....

- Matt
 

Yo Momma

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
1,792
Location
NEK Vermont
When I was young and dumb......... wait!!!..... I mean earlier in life....... LOL I was nuking from sun to shade, totally high on testosterone and various other substances (....... NO not MJ!.... lack of O2, scenery, adrenaline, snowbunnies, etc... ) at Snowmass, into the woods for a "natural break" as Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin (RIP) so eloquently put it for the Tour. At the shade border... heavy snow, I'm talking cement... I double ejected head first into a tree. It was a true superman dive witnessed by another "natural breaker" already in mid-stream... He said " You okay?" I responded "Damn, the sh%!@t you have to go through to take a piss around here!"

Respect the terrain....... ALWAYS..........
 
Last edited:

Sponsor

Staff online

Top