Have they ever optimized jumping skis?

[crgildart]

How did the v-stance get started in an event with a form-judging component? I would think the early adopters would have gotten horrible scores.

In the mid-1950s, Swiss jumper Andreas Daescher became the first jumper to hold the arms backwards close to the body with a more extreme forward lean. Then in 1985, Swedish jumper Jan Bokloev started spreading the tips of his skis into a “V” shape. Initially ridiculed, this technique proved so successful that by 1992 all Olympic medallists were using this style.

https://www.olympic.org/ski-jumping-equipment-and-history

I remember watching Bokloev early on. He was crushing the other skiers in distance which more than made up for style point deductions. Can't beat em, join em!

 

[crgildart]

The width of the ski is limited to 95mm MIN and 105mm MAX -- at the balance point of the ski. The length of the ski is limited by the height/weight of the jumper, or to 145% of the jumper's height, whichever is less.

There are a TON of other parameters limited and specified in this document, on pg 14 or so...: http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/...tionequipment_1617_11072016_clean_English.pdf

They even specify the maximum thickness of the underwear worn by the ski jumper (presumably to limit bulky underwear that would increase the ability to catch more lift off of the jump).

I think they are calling height to the top of the hand with arms extended over their head. It's pretty clear that just from the toe binding to the tip is the height of the skier here not including all the length behind the binding..

 

[pchewn]

I think they are calling height to the top of the hand with arms extended over their head. It's pretty clear that just from the toe binding to the tip is the height of the skier here not including all the length behind the binding..

I disagree. It sure looks like the skis are about 140% of the height from foot to head:

 

[crgildart]

Misread, was thinking height, weight or 145% of height whichever is LESS. How is height and weight ratio measured, CM/KG??

 

[Rudi Riet]

How is height and weight ratio measured, CM/KG??

Furlongs to the hogshead, I think....

 

[Seldomski]

I disagree. It sure looks like the skis are about 140% of the height from foot to head:

View attachment 39816

LOL @ that engineering drawing. Well done!

 

[pchewn]

Misread, was thinking height, weight or 145% of height whichever is LESS. How is height and weight ratio measured, CM/KG??

Body Mass Index: Height/weight ratio is measured in Kg/m^2 (Mass divided by height squared). BMI of less than 21 means you have to decrease the allowable length of the ski 0.5% for every .125 BMI


This is directly from the linked document above:
Ski length
According to the body weight/height relationship (BMI = body weight / body height2 in Kg/m-2,). See enclosure. However, the maximum ski length is 145 % of the total body height of the competitor based on a minimum BMI of 21 for Ladies and 21 for Men. - For athletes with less than minimum BMI a grading table of 0,125 BMI per 0,5 % of ski length will be applied. Exception: For Youth competitions, the maximum ski length is limited to 140 % from the body height only (no BMI formula will be applied).

 

[crgildart]

What are the limitations on mustache and sideburn chop wings?

 

[HardDaysNight]

They even specify the maximum thickness of the underwear worn by the ski jumper (presumably to limit bulky underwear that would increase the ability to catch more lift off of the jump).

I’d definitely go for the maximum thickness underwear in a futile effort to conceal the involuntary release of bladder and bowel that would certainly accompany any of my attempts!

 

[Mike Thomas]

I’d definitely go for the maximum thickness underwear in a futile effort to conceal the involuntary release of bladder and bowel that would certainly accompany any of my attempts!

"What's the most important gear for ski jumping"

"depends"

"Do you mean it depends in the venue or the conditions?"

"Uhmm... no."

 

[pchewn]

I’d definitely go for the maximum thickness underwear in a futile effort to conceal the involuntary release of bladder and bowel that would certainly accompany any of my attempts!

The forceful release of solids, liquids, or gases is prohibited -- you can't be rocket-powered!

 

[Primoz]

Ski jumping has more rules then alpine regarding equipment >AND< also athletes weight/height etc. In my years, we had few training camps (and competitions) in same places as ski jumpers had, so I had chance to meet quite few of these guys. I also had unfortunate oportunity to meet Sven Hannawald (until this year only person who ever won Four hills tournament winning all four races in same year) during summer, which meant short sleeves and shorts. If you can imagine skinniest fashion model in her worse bulimia years, she would look super fat compared to this guy. At that time, he was few cm bigger then me, and I'm 1.81m, and he was around 50kg. His thigh was thinner then my hand and his knee looked like ball on end of stick. He was actualy one of reasons that FIS changed rules, and now ski length depends also on BMI, to avoid anorexia in ski jumpers.
Skis are of course super limited (length and wide wise), and then you have their suits. There has been so much manipulations with it (as 1cm longer suit really makes sort of wingsuit effect and that 1cm can bring extra meter or more on big hills and up to 5, 6m on ski flying hills), that nowadays you have suit control on top of the inrun as well as in outrun.
So yes, equipment in ski jumping is optimized to the limits, and beyond

 

[Bart Parnell]

Right but rules aside, the ultimate ski jumper would be a tall anorexic teen with a winged squirrel suit, airfoil blocks behind the boots, and even larger skis?

 

[Primoz]

@Bart Parnell pretty much so

 

[crgildart]

Right but rules aside, the ultimate ski jumper would be a tall anorexic teen with a winged squirrel suit, airfoil blocks behind the boots, and even larger skis?

With a giant mustache waxed in to wing shapes...

 

[mdf]

Hmmm. Makes me wonder how the lift on a pair of jumping skis compares to a wingsuit. Sounds like an opportunity for more zany Red Bull sponsored stunts. They've already thrown snowboarders out of airplanes

 

[crgildart]

They're already landing way down on the flats of the 90 meter jump. Haven't watched any ski flying (120M?) events in a long time but can only assume they have also maxes out that terrain as well without webbed gloves and armpit wings..

 

[mdf]

They're already landing way down on the flats of the 90 meter jump.

I was wondering why they do that. Seems dangerous. I mean, the officals already adjust the start height to control where the competitors land, so why are they adjusted so close to the flat?

 

[Primoz]

so why are they adjusted so close to the flat?

Because noone want to see jumps up on the hump of ski jumping hill People want to see long jumps, and that's over K point of hill, which means down close to radius.
But one thing though... what looks like "landing on flat" is in reality far from this. When I was still in xc racing, we were quite often on trainings in Planica (where, until very recently, biggest ski flying hill on world is, and where first ever jump over 100 and then over 200m was) and on free afternoons we were fooling around jumping hills. Those days world record in ski flying was around 225m, which on TV looked basically on flat, and we had some internal downhill competitions on xc skis from that ski flying hill (and few ski jumping competitions on 30m hill... also with xc skis ). If you went down from 190 or 200m mark (that's 200m below the table, and just 25m above that time world record line), you had some super fast downhill there (reaching 90+km/h without problems). So that 225m mark was way way up the hill, way before radius even started, but on TV things look different.