Hannenkham Course Changes

[Speeder]

I have been watching some old video from Kitzbhuel in the 70's and 80's and the finish bump looks way bigger now than it was then. The guys in 1982 barely got any air at all but from the 90's on there is huge air off that bump.
Are the recent racers going so much faster down the final schuss or has the Zeil Sprung been enhanced?

 

[François Pugh]

I'm betting on a design change in the course for more exciting air for the spectators. Big air is fun and all, but I doubt the racers complained the course was too boring.

 

[scott43]

Yeah I remember reading about racers/team people saying the organizers were making it tough on purpose to enhance the spectacle. I'm not sure if it's that or if it's low snowfall making all the cat track edges stick out more on all those cross-hill traverses.

 

[Bad Bob]

Probably some of both. When those guys are doing 80 it doesn't take too much change in the grooming to create that kind of air; one well placed push with the blade should almost do it.

 

[4ster]

I think that finish jump has only been built up during modern times, say since the early 90s & is shaped according to the conditions & anticipated racer speeds
There was also the Seidlalm jump added some time during the 90s once the racers come off the long flat.

 

[sjjohnston]

That bump (aka the "zielsprung") was actually reduced in recent years, after Scott Macartney's death-defying crash.

At that time (2010), I remember reading some grumpy talk that the powers-that-be had gradually built the bump up - in search of thrills for the finish-line spectators - beyond the point of safety.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Isn’t downhill similar to car racing, crashes sell and draw crowds.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

Isn’t downhill similar to car racing, crashes sell and draw crowds.

NASCAR and F1 have been dropping in viewership and attendance. Not from specifically a lack of crashes, but relatively uninteresting competition. The overtakes are rare and the battles rarely happen. The same is happening in F1. There is so much dirty air that passing is impossible.

I don't think that anybody wants to see people get hurt, we want to see good competitive racing. For motor racing, that means overtakes, rivalry, and the occasional touch. For ski racing that might be not making the turns... unfortunately at the Hannenkham and other downhills, if the brakes aren't used that means usually going into the fence or worse. We just don't have the capabilities for run-offs and safety zones on every turn like the motor racing world can afford. It's unfortunate that we don't have the area to make the area safer for skiers.

But on the other hand, it is quite amazing that skiers will still throw themselves down these courses.

 

[James]

Well courses were also pretty sketchy in terms of grooming in the early 80's.

Chad Fleischer talking about prejumping that last jump is classic. It's on youtube.

Also I heard on a video Tommy Moe talking about his first time at the Streif. Two of the guys in front of him went off the first jump, mousefalle?, and went off the course over the fence. He was terrified as these guys weren't like Joe Schmoe off the street. His coach called up and told him just make it down, forget placing.

 

[oldschoolskier]

NASCAR and F1 have been dropping in viewership and attendance. Not from specifically a lack of crashes, but relatively uninteresting competition. The overtakes are rare and the battles rarely happen. The same is happening in F1. There is so much dirty air that passing is impossible.

I don't think that anybody wants to see people get hurt, we want to see good competitive racing. For motor racing, that means overtakes, rivalry, and the occasional touch. For ski racing that might be not making the turns... unfortunately at the Hannenkham and other downhills, if the brakes aren't used that means usually going into the fence or worse. We just don't have the capabilities for run-offs and safety zones on every turn like the motor racing world can afford. It's unfortunate that we don't have the area to make the area safer for skiers.

But on the other hand, it is quite amazing that skiers will still throw themselves down these courses.

I wasn’t suggesting that’s a good thing. We are a morbid race and must see what happened, not that we encourage it.

Don’t most drivers slow and stop to see wrecks on the highway.

Its the oh ah ouch commentary that makes us feel connected.

The reason racing is losing is audience is it’s too safe and the risk of injury is greatly reduced. Now most are crash and walk away. There are the exceptions of dead but those are far between.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

The reason racing is losing is audience is it’s too safe and the risk of injury is greatly reduced. Now most are crash and walk away. There are the exceptions of dead but those are far between.

Bernie Ecclestone made these same comments. I don't think they are wrong but, as with everything, more to the puzzle. He made this interesting comment:

“Look at the acrobat at the circus who walks on a tightrope high above the ground, who captures everyone’s attention. Of course, they’re admired, but if the public is there, it’s because they are taking risks and are so high. If they were doing the same thing a metre above the ground, no one would watch!”

There certainly is a level of risk that people want to watch. But what about the competitiveness?

 

[dbostedo]

Chad Fleischer talking about prejumping that last jump is classic. It's on youtube.

Yeah, that's a good one.

 

[Average Joe]

At 150 kph the Zielsprung will launch you no matter how much they try to soften it with grooming.

In 2008, Scott McCartney crashed AFTER they softened the Zielsprung. It was done after the last training runs, which rightly P.O.'d the coaches and racers, as changing the contours of the course after the last training run is not standard practice.
Daniel Albrecht's career ended at that jump, and that was a year or more after Scott's crash.

 

[Speeder]

Good points abour spectacular finish shots for the spectators. Was the increase in the size of the Ziel Sprung an evolution or did it just appear one year. I havs been looking at old video but there are many races missing. The jump seemed almost non existent in the 80's then suddenly became a big deal.

 

[dbostedo]

The jump seemed almost non existent in the 80's then suddenly became a big deal.

Right around 1989, the force of gravity got significantly lower on earth. Most countries started running gravity pumps to increase it so that people didn't really notice. But they have the capability of turning the pumps off in specific locations. When you see an athlete do something amazing, it's probably because something went wrong with the local gravity pump. Or in this case, they probably turn it off altogether for the bottom of the race course; Hence the sudden appearance of big air time.