GS Racing question: Warming up vs wasting fresh wax

[S.H.]

You need to have a good enough warm up to feel good about your skiing and confident enough to attack in the start gate.

For some people, that's one run
For others, it's 5-6

Figure out what works for you. If you're a high-rep person, do what you have to to preserve the wax (either leave a bit extra and scrape/brush at the base before your race run or at the start, as @ScotsSkier suggested) or get a second pair of skis (doesn't necessarily have to be a race ski - what works for you?).

But ... if you aren't fully confident and ready to commit in the start ... then I don't care how good your wax is, you're not going to ski well.

Depending on the hill, wax in GS may not be a big factor ...

 

[ScotsSkier]

You need to have a good enough warm up to feel good about your skiing and confident enough to attack in the start gate.

For some people, that's one run
For others, it's 5-6

Figure out what works for you. If you're a high-rep person, do what you have to to preserve the wax (either leave a bit extra and scrape/brush at the base before your race run or at the start, as @ScotsSkier suggested) or get a second pair of skis (doesn't necessarily have to be a race ski - what works for you?).

But ... if you aren't fully confident and ready to commit in the start ... then I don't care how good your wax is, you're not going to ski well.

Depending on the hill, wax in GS may not be a big factor ...

Great advice!!! Worth more than any Hi Fluoro!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Perfect wax on race run is the icing on the cake. It can help make you #1 but you have to have the rest in place to make a difference.

Start, finish, glides, turns are the big place to make gains in time reduction. All the wax does is act as the amplifier to these gains. Make big gains here, wax helps them have an even bigger effect.

Learn to maximize time reduction with technique, and then worry about the wax.

Remember great technique and decent wax is faster than than perfect wax and poor technique.

As an example, I skiing with a friend who races and waxes his skis for the conditions daily, I wax with an all purpose wax as needed. Gliding in flats I always beat him no matter the conditions, so it’s not the wax but technique. I’m I good enough that I would benefit from a waxing geared towards conditions, maybe, maybe not.

 

[Chris Walker]

People who say technique flaws will vastly overcome any wax advantage are certainly correct, but miss one point, in my opinion. I’m not waxing to gain a few precious tenths to get onto the podium, I’m waxing to gain a few precious tenths to beat out my buddy for 37th place! It may be lame but it’s still bragging rights.
As for being ridiculed for bringing a slip pair at my talent level, well, let’s just say if I was worried about ridicule I’d never put this body in a speed suit!

 

[Magi]

I second the "figure out what works for you" method. And honestly - maybe worry about optimizing something else until it's wax that's holding you back. (though this is a problem than can be fixed strictly with $$$...)

All of the kids (after about age 14) I know of in the race program have two pair of (identical) skis for each event.

That's the best (if most expensive) way to "preserve" the wax on your race pair (don't use them).

 

[Wilhelmson]

People who say technique flaws will vastly overcome any wax advantage are certainly correct, but miss one point, in my opinion. I’m not waxing to gain a few precious tenths to get onto the podium, I’m waxing to gain a few precious tenths to beat out my buddy for 37th place! It may be lame but it’s still bragging rights.
As for being ridiculed for bringing a slip pair at my talent level, well, let’s just say if I was worried about ridicule I’d never put this body in a speed suit!

Rodney Dangerfield would have come up with some good ones. "I went in to get my legs waxed and...."

 

[oldschoolskier]

People who say technique flaws will vastly overcome any wax advantage are certainly correct, but miss one point, in my opinion. I’m not waxing to gain a few precious tenths to get onto the podium, I’m waxing to gain a few precious tenths to beat out my buddy for 37th place! It may be lame but it’s still bragging rights.
As for being ridiculed for bringing a slip pair at my talent level, well, let’s just say if I was worried about ridicule I’d never put this body in a speed suit!

I thought spheres are considered very aerodynamic! Add a tail and it could be considered a tear drop

Sorry that was just to good of a set up to pass by

 

[Karl B]

I spend a ton of time waxing each week, but I can feel my skis get a bit slower after every run

Personally I don't buy into this if you are hot waxing your skis. Between teaching and coaching I will go several days before there is any noticeable loss of performance. But, if you are convinced this is really the case, I would tell you to make as many warm up runs as you need to get in the groove. Then break out a bottle of Swix liquid wax and rub it on after inspection. Brush it well and make your run with confidence.

Karl

 

[François Pugh]

I don't race, but can speak to wear of wax just skiing. I usually hot wax for proper temperature, scrape and brush with a single nylon brush. Once in a long while, I will use a metal brush before waxing. I'm not racing, so I don't feel the need to use a progression of different brushes.

What I've found is that on my little 250' bump, the first run and maybe the 2nd run are slow, then it's good for the day. If I go two days, by the end of the 2nd day I feel the skis slowing down. That "slowing down" could be due to temperature changes, but averaging out over the seven years I've been patrolling this small bump, that is my best guestimate. I tend to ski bell to bell and don't need to treat too many injuries on a typical day, so little time spent not skiing (unlike what I see for instructors and coaches).

 

[cantunamunch]

^Add Fibertex polish and you won't have that first 2 run slowness, and it will run faster on wet snow

 

[CascadeConcrete]

But if you are in the 70th - 90th percentile like me, you can move from 75th to 80th with wax, if your competitors aren't bothering.

I don't know, for me at least, that would be something of a hollow victory. I don't think it's meaningful to beat someone by simply being willing to spend more time/money/effort on wax. I'd rather earn my placement with my skiing. I can understand why it matters in high level, serious racing. But for beer league? Meh, I'll settle for decently prepped skis and not obsess about it any further. Same reason I don't wear a suit.

 

[Swede]

Wax for tech, not a huge deal. For speed with glide sections, yes.

 

[Tony S]

I'd rather earn my placement with my skiing.

Why does everyone always assume, when you say you think wax can matter, that you're talking about improving your wax jobs instead of improving your skiing? There is nothing mutually exclusive about these two things.

Anticipating another quip, saying that "time spent waxing would be better spent on drills or in gates" is meaningful only if your living situation is such that you can find time and a venue to ski in as easily as you can find time and a venue to wax in. For the vast majority of us, that isn't the case.

I don't know, for me at least, that would be something of a hollow victory. I don't think it's meaningful to beat someone by simply being willing to spend more time/money/effort on wax.

Competition is competition. The people who get the best results get them because they have probed all the avenues to winning. Waxing is one of those avenues. If you place ahead of someone of equal ability because you put more time and effort into learning how to prep skis and executing on that knowledge, you deserve your placement.

 

[Tony S]

@Sibhusky, do you race?

 

[Johnny V.]

Competition is competition. The people who get the best results get them because they have probed all the avenues to winning. Waxing is one of those avenues. If you place ahead of someone of equal ability because you put more time and effort into learning how to prep skis and executing on that knowledge, you deserve your placement.

Yep, I'd put proper ski prep under the heading of tactics-just one of many things that can make you a little faster.

I don't know, for me at least, that would be something of a hollow victory. I don't think it's meaningful to beat someone by simply being willing to spend more time/money/effort on wax. I'd rather earn my placement with my skiing. I can understand why it matters in high level, serious racing. But for beer league? Meh, I'll settle for decently prepped skis and not obsess about it any further. Same reason I don't wear a suit.

I'd say that beating someone who DSQ'd or DNF'd, would be more of a hollow victory than a straight out win. Most adult racing is for fun, but even though I consider myself fortunate and thankful that I can still do it at my age, I'm not going to stop prepping my skis and wearing a suit.

You can be serious or as unserious as you like.................the beer still tastes good after the race!

 

[Doug Briggs]

If your starts suck, you're knee capping yourself. Strength and flexibility/range of motion training* will do you more good than much of anything else. It's also amazing how few beer leaguers can effectively skate out of the start.

* a set of dumbbells are cheap and don't take up much space.

I was going to say working on your start may pay much bigger dividends than whether or not your wax is absolutely fresh.

You can probably shave 0.5 to the first gate in GS, more if it is as bad as you suggest. From there you are going faster, carrying more speed down the hill. You will probably find your timing will need to adjust as you will be going that much faster. Seriously. After your kick start skate until you don't feel pressure when you stride and pole until you don't feel pressure when you pole.

As @markojp says, skating is a big part of the start. Whenever you need to get from point a to b by skating, skate like you are racing. Long pole strokes, strong strides. It will improve your skating confidence and your body strength.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

In our club as well as the region, they do emphasize a good tune/wax before race day.
We are often racing against kids from all over the French alps. This is true for all the kids groups u8-u16. That said, there is zero emphasis on fresh wax for the race run, separate race/inspection skis etc. Normal protocol is that we meet the coaches in the morning near the lift, then the group of kids ski off with the coaches, do some warm up runs/drills, inspect, etc all on the prepared race skis- no one is seen touching up waxing etc before the actual race. No one has spare fresh skis waiting for them at the start- it's not forbidden, it's just not done. In between the runs, the coaches are skiing/training with the kids that are done, also taking groups through to smooth the course, generally doing a bunch of skiing and not sitting around. Then the course is reset for the second run, and the same skis that the kids have been on all day are used.
This isn't FIS skiing, but it is higher level youth skiing in Europe. Just a data point. It is interesting to me that ski prep for the race run/trainer skis are not important to these groups, however race speed suits, FIS helmets and specific discipline skis are mandated even at U8/U10 levels.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Personally I don't buy into this if you are hot waxing your skis. Between teaching and coaching I will go several days before there is any noticeable loss of performance. But, if you are convinced this is really the case, I would tell you to make as many warm up runs as you need to get in the groove. Then break out a bottle of Swix liquid wax and rub it on after inspection. Brush it well and make your run with confidence.

Karl

That may be the case with a "normal" wax job but I can assure you that with a full race prep finish you can feel the difference by the fourth run

 

[Sibhusky]

@Sibhusky, do you race?

My daughter raced USSA and FIS and was a race coach for several years and also did beer league racing for maybe six years at two different mountains. She took best woman racer a number of seasons. This past winter was her first non racing winter since 1997. For whatever it's worth, she's 5'3", and weighs 120 pounds and didn't wear a speed suit those winning seasons in beer league.

She didn't race this past season because back country interests her more these days.

She might wax before a race, but she thinks my wax routine is NUTS. I'm not sure that in later years she even used race skis at her races. I think she used her everyday skis. Ultimately experience from a young age counts a lot.

 

[oldschoolskier]

In any sport it comes down to 4 simple things, skill, equipment, luck and nerve. Now luck and nerve you either have or don’t so that narrows it down to 2, skill and equipment (waxing is part of equipment for this argument).

For sake of discussion a good wax job might take off 0.5 seconds overall which sounds like a lot, however a poor technique could very easily lose you 1 second in a single error, add up several, you do the math.

So if you are a consistent skier, a good wax job will save you a 0.5 seconds. If you are all over the place because of poor technique, that potential 0.5 second gain (and effort put into is wasted). You’d be better off ensuring you aren’t losing time vs trying to use tricks (wax) to find time.

In short is wax important, hell yes, if you’re consistent. If not than fixing inconsistency is the first priority to save time.

Here is where we see the difference of opinion, those that ski well enough to realize that potential gain does not influence the out come vs those that ski consistently well enough to see the gain.

I’m in the former, working to be in the latter.