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Group lessons for advanced skiers

Prosper

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In my experience the quality of the advanced group lesson varies by ski resort. Ski resorts that are know for black and double black terrain seem to provide more consistent, higher quality advanced lessons. Those mountains more known for intermediate terrain seem to struggle to provide well split, advanced lessons. Here's a thread I started earlier this year: www.pugski.com/threads/higher-level-ski-instruction-options.17327/ about this topic.
 

Fuller

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I'm doing a weekly (2 hours x 8) men's group session here at Whitefish, did it last year too. I missed the first lesson as we hadn't arrived in town but in the second lesson they were still sorting out the class by ability so I think I'm in the right group. The cost is $285 so not a huge amount. Our instructor is an L3 and has a good reputation. Right now there are 5 students including me. My only issue so far is that I'm not getting any feedback as to how I'm actually skiing - our L3 spends precious little time observing the class. As a Pugski regular and a consumer of all the instruction videos I can find I would say I have a better than average knowledge of ski theory. I know what I should be doing - I just don't know if I'm doing it!

I'd like to get an idea as to what I can reasonably expect in a group situation. Is 5 students too many to expect any personal feedback?
 

Nancy Hummel

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I'm doing a weekly (2 hours x 8) men's group session here at Whitefish, did it last year too. I missed the first lesson as we hadn't arrived in town but in the second lesson they were still sorting out the class by ability so I think I'm in the right group. The cost is $285 so not a huge amount. Our instructor is an L3 and has a good reputation. Right now there are 5 students including me. My only issue so far is that I'm not getting any feedback as to how I'm actually skiing - our L3 spends precious little time observing the class. As a Pugski regular and a consumer of all the instruction videos I can find I would say I have a better than average knowledge of ski theory. I know what I should be doing - I just don't know if I'm doing it!

I'd like to get an idea as to what I can reasonably expect in a group situation. Is 5 students too many to expect any personal feedback?

The instructor should be able to give every person, in your class, personal feedback.
I would ask him for feedback. Have you talked to others in the class? Maybe they feel that way also.

5 is a decent sized class. Easy for the instructor to ride the lift with a different person each time and give feedback without having to stand around doing it.
 

karlo

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They interview students at the beginning and do tentative group assignments, then take you down some easy bumps, a few groomer turns on Meadow, and then Nina's to the bottom. If there are N groups, there are N+1 orange jackets with one (the program director?) watching and then they reshuffle groups at the bottom so they are serious about getting a good match.
Programs that do ski-offs are far better than those that don’t.
 

martyg

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“Tips” won’t make you a better skier. Deliberate practice, and purposeful practice, day after day, will.

My advice: join PSIA. Sign up for National Academy. IME most multi-day camps for consumer level are not worth it. “Skiing around” with an instructor will net you next to nothing in the way of mastery.
 

martyg

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Wasatchman

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I have done this 3 times. First time was with Robin and we (me) somehow got confused ane were not at Collins mid mountain lodge for the meet up and ski off. I called Alta's ski school and they had an instructor meet us at the bottom of Collins lift. Essentially what happened was Robin got a private and I tagged along. There was no powder to find that day but he showed us around a bit.

Second time Robin was hurting and suggested I do it to get some hard skiing in rather than taking it easy with her. Actually met an Epic ski guy in my group (Marathoner). Did not get a lot of instruction myself, but hit some great areas and our instructor/guide led up to Gunsight and coached us down the top part.

Third time I was with my son and we both made the top group in ski off. Instructor led us to a few of recently opened areas and we made a lot of tracks in deep, though somewhat heavy, snow. I did not receive much instruction, but had a good time discussing ski philosophy with our instructor/guide. My son got some good attention and tips.

they seem to keep it to 4 per group.

Very good value and after 3 of these I know my way around Alta a lot better.
That's the thing with these tours. I guess you can't always count on instruction being involved of that's what you want but it sounds like John Rudolph does which is good.

As I said though, the times I have had good luck with instruction in group is related to these types of tours/workshops. Sounds like where @Erik Timmerman works and some other resorts you might be okay taking an advanced group lesson.

But certain places from experience, the advanced group lessons are not good for an experienced skier because you're by no means guaranteed an experienced enough instructor.
I've always said (semi-jokingly) that we should have a reverse ski off. The instructors ski down and the students pick them. Kind of like choosing your own lobster.
Haha. That's an interesting idea. I like ot. Although being mismatched in a group isn't usually ideal, you should still get something out of it from a good instructor.

Others have said it, but you can have a great lesson without having to touch black terrain and in some cases that's even more ideal.
 

tromano

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Wonder if the OP is aware of Beaver Mt, UT. $50 for a lift ticket and $190 for a 3 hour private. Leave SLC by 7am and your there by 9.
 

Dave Marshak

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“Tips” won’t make you a better skier. Deliberate practice, and purposeful practice, day after day, will.

My advice: join PSIA. Sign up for National Academy. IME most multi-day camps for consumer level are not worth it. “Skiing around” with an instructor will net you next to nothing in the way of mastery.
The best deal in ski instruction is hiring clinics. For less than the price of lift tickets you ski with the best instructors, who have no incentive to flatter your ego. OTOH the fact that you have to pay for what amounts to a job interview tells you everything you need to know about the job

dm
 
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ADKmel

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You mentioned Taos, I highly recommend Taos, you can make your own ski week w/friends, or just go, their rate of return for students to 'ski week' is amazing Once you've done a ski week you'll probably go back.

I love Taos it has lots of steeps with fabulous fall lines and every type of big Mt skiing (Sans the cat ride) Ski week does have a ski off and if Jean Mayer is there he assigns you to a level. You can always move up or down in levels and change groups, don't like your instructor or class let them know they'll move you. They are there solely to Teach you new things and give you a great tour of the mountain for your abilities. Instructors are Top Notch.
 

TPJ

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I teach advanced and expert level group lessons everyday at Jackson Hole. Class size is 1-5 for a full day and 1-3 for a half day PM. I rarely have a group of more than 3 in a full day as we really want the groups to be cohesive and for all of the people in the group to have similar goals. I think we run a very good program. Judging from the amount of repeat business that I personally do, I'd say the guests like my teaching style and lesson content.
 

TPJ

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TPJ - what does that cost?

I think the Max 5 and Max 3 group lesson products both cost about $190. The full day goes from 10-4 and the 1/2 day PM goes from 1-4. Both products cost the same with the difference being that the 1/2 day PM group will never have more than 3 people in it. Often the Max 3 is a 1 person group.
 

Coach13

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I think the Max 5 and Max 3 group lesson products both cost about $190. The full day goes from 10-4 and the 1/2 day PM goes from 1-4. Both products cost the same with the difference being that the 1/2 day PM group will never have more than 3 people in it. Often the Max 3 is a 1 person group.

I’ve spent some time checking out lesson packages at some of the major resorts and got a look at JH’s multi day group lessons. I think that they are very reasonable, especially by comparison to other major resorts.
 

martyg

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The best deal in ski instruction is hiring clinics. For less than the price of lift tickets you ski with the best instructors, who have no incentive to flatter your ego. OTOH the fact that you have to pay for what amounts to a job interview tells you everything you need to know about the job

dm

What hills are you at that a hiring clinic is paid for out of pocket? Anything connected with Vail, Alterra, major Western Resort’s.... you interview with HR / ski school director, you are hired, and paid a base rate for training.

But agree, if you want to improve your skiing nothing will lead you on that journey than teaching. Part one is training. Part two is modeling perfect technique bell-to-bell. That is your purposeful practice.

IME there is no ego flattering at National Academy.
 

TPJ

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What hills are you at that a hiring clinic is paid for out of pocket? Anything connected with Vail, Alterra, major Western Resort’s.... you interview with HR / ski school director, you are hired, and paid a base rate for training.

But agree, if you want to improve your skiing nothing will lead you on that journey than teaching. Part one is training. Part two is modeling perfect technique bell-to-bell. That is your purposeful practice.

IME there is no ego flattering at National Academy.
I paid to attend the hiring clinic 15 years ago. Once I was hired, I think the money was refunded. The cost was very cheap for five days of focused training and lift tickets. The hiring clinic is for people who wish to become ski instructors with no previous experience. If you have experience, you get hired without having to do it as a "qualified new hire" and the process is similar to what is described above.
 

martyg

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I paid to attend the hiring clinic 15 years ago. Once I was hired, I think the money was refunded. The cost was very cheap for five days of focused training and lift tickets. The hiring clinic is for people who wish to become ski instructors with no previous experience. If you have experience, you get hired without having to do it as a "qualified new hire" and the process is similar to what is described above.

Yes. 15 years ago. The job market is way too tight right now. Most ski schools are hurting for qualified candidates.

If “hiring clinics” as you described, still exist, they do so at smaller areas. Nothing like that exists at larger, professionally run areas: Vail, Alterra, MCP, Telluride, JH, TYC, etc.
 

TPJ

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Yes. 15 years ago. The job market is way too tight right now. Most ski schools are hurting for qualified candidates.

If “hiring clinics” as you described, still exist, they do so at smaller areas. Nothing like that exists at larger, professionally run areas: Vail, Alterra, MCP, Telluride, JH, TYC, etc.
Hiring clinics definitely do still exist at JH.
 

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