Grooming techniques using a winch

[James]

I kind of think that a black run should be so called because it's steep enough so that you can't groom it. Kudos to her for giving it the big go but it was fairly mellow and manicured.

Almost any black run can be groomed with a winch cat. Plus things just don't look steep on video.
38-9 degrees, steepest piste in Austria


Winch cat. This run is prob that steep at top. It's not a piste but I think they groom it every so often to stabilize it.

 

[Stacks]

Almost any black run can be groomed with a winch cat. Plus things just don't look steep on video.
38-9 degrees, steepest piste in Austria


Winch cat. This run is prob that steep at top. It's not a piste but I think they groom it every so often to stabilize it.

The trouble is when you do groom terrain that steep you encourage people without the necessary skills to have a go which is usually hazardous for all.

 

[Tony S]

Winch cat. This run is prob that steep at top. It's not a piste but I think they groom it every so often to stabilize it.

Wow. I didn't know there was groomer porn.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Wow. I didn't know there was groomer porn.

I wouldn't have watched it if you hadn't said that. Hey, who wouldn't like to drive one of those things on that pitch with the sun setting over the summit?

 

[Tricia]

Wow. I didn't know there was groomer porn.

Oh great. Now Google is going to flag us for allowing people to post p0%N.

 

[Tony S]

Oh great. Now Google is going to flag us for allowing people to post p0%N.

That wasn't people, that was James.

 

[dbostedo]

That wasn't people, that was James.

Are you suggesting Google needs to have special rules for @James? Hmm... yeah, you might be right.

 

[Tricia]

Are you suggesting Google needs to have special rules for @James? Hmm... yeah, you might be right.

They don't? Who knew?

 

[James]

Here's one to keep you up late...
A Swiss ski area, Laax, that I've never heard of, but is big enough to have a fleet of 24 groomers.
Tone, you might need a glass of wine. This one has a lot in it.
Never seen a pipe cutter lit up:

Must be speaking Swiss-German. Youtube thinks it's Dutch.


It might seem like they build the pipe in one night. Those things take weeks. I'm surprised they cut it every night. It gets wider on the bottom every time you cut it.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Flims-Laax is huge, and a lot of fun. I'd love to ski there on a powder day, but haven't been lucky in my two visits.

 

[Tony S]

I kind of think that a black run should be so called because it's steep enough so that you can't groom it.

This has been discussed many times. Remember that color ratings are relative at a given area. Your criterion is not practicable at many - perhaps the majority of - areas North America.

 

[mdf]

Anybody have pics or video of the winch cat cable attachment at the top of the hill? Is it a permanent installation? How big is the motor, and how is it synced with what the cat is doing?

 

[Uke]

I may be wrong in this but its my understanding that the winch cable is not because the cat needs to be pulled up the hill, the modern groomer is capable of climbing up any black pitch, the cable is there to keep the cat from 'skating' sideways down the hill. Basically it's a safety line.

At my resort the winch cat is anchored by a second groomer parked at the top of the slope being groomed, at least that's how I understand it's done.

uke

 

[slowrider]

Occasionally there are stationary anchors to winch to. But usually another cat is used as a anchor. I've been winched off of 60% grades in 80k trucks by 2 D-10 dozers. Not really fun unless your crazy.

 

[Bad Bob]

Anybody have pics or video of the winch cat cable attachment at the top of the hill? Is it a permanent installation? How big is the motor, and how is it synced with what the cat is doing?

Look at @James Laax video above they show several different ones being used. They run from as simple as a large tree to a steel post imbedded in the ground. No doubt there are spots where another groomer would be the answer too.

Interesting stuff that has really evolved in the past 20 years. It was not that long ago when boot packing a run was the state of the art. I did it on a World Cup course in the early 70's.

 

[KingGrump]

They still do lots of boot packing at Taos.

 

[dbostedo]

They still do lots of boot packing at Taos.

But that's for avi mitigation and snow preservation, right? Not in lieu of grooming. Highland Bowl is also boot packed each season.

 

[Ken_R]

But that's for avi mitigation and snow preservation, right? Not in lieu of grooming. Highland Bowl is also boot packed each season.

Its better to bootpack early in the season rather than do avy mitigation later by using explosives and ripping the bowl of the entire season's snowpack. They do anyway but unless there is a huge storm cycle snow stays put.

 

[KingGrump]

Not in lieu of grooming.

We don't need no stinkin' grooming.

 

[Stacks]

This has been discussed many times. Remember that color ratings are relative at a given area. Your criterion is not practicable at many - perhaps the majority of - areas North America.

I think I'm being taken too literally, sure you can probably groom most things but if it is a true black diamond then it should be steep and mean and ungroomed and left to those who can to figure it out. Perfectly manicured, mellow 'black' runs are just kind of sad and desperate marketing for wannabes. If it's not that steep then it can still qualify if there are rocks, trees, narrow, bumps etc to provide some natural challenges. They shouldn't be taken away.