Doug Briggs

Skiing the powder
Industry Insider
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Posts
4,444
Location
Breckenridge, CO
I have two pair of boots. 1 with gripwalk and pin compatible soles. The other straight up racing boots. Choose a ski, then the boot is a given with my binding options. Or vice versa. For me, it is usually the former choice and decided by conditions. I can ski either boot for most types of skis.

I have yet to put a GW compatible binding on a narrow ski although technically, I could put my GW boot in my race skis with the Solomons they have now. I just don't wanted to change them back and forth. And I don't have an SL skis mounted at all. :eek:
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brian Finch

Brian Finch

PT, CSCS, Cert- DN, FRCms, M|WOD Coach
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
2,076
Location
Vermont
I must have missed this one. What's the story here? What is Bode up to?
He wanted to race on Full Tilts, but the clog is so hollow, it won’t accept lifters, so he & PJ made a metal add on boot sole with lugs.
 

firebanex

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Posts
390
Location
Fairbanks, Alaska
I'm a ski patroller, I have to walk in my boots. I'll take the slightly less control for the of not hating my life as I walk around in my boots. To be honest, the only time I actually can tell there is a difference is when I have my Salomon MTN touring boots on and it's some really screwed up snow that I'm not enjoying anyways. I can't tell that anything is different when I've got my gwipwalk equipped Dalbello Lupo Pro HD's on except I don't hate myself when I have to walk or hike.

I like the evolution of ski boot soles right now, it has made my life easier.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brian Finch

Brian Finch

PT, CSCS, Cert- DN, FRCms, M|WOD Coach
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
2,076
Location
Vermont
I'm a ski patroller, I have to walk in my boots. I'll take the slightly less control for the of not hating my life as I walk around in my boots. To be honest, the only time I actually can tell there is a difference is when I have my Salomon MTN touring boots on and it's some really screwed up snow that I'm not enjoying anyways. I can't tell that anything is different when I've got my gwipwalk equipped Dalbello Lupo Pro HD's on except I don't hate myself when I have to walk or hike.

I like the evolution of ski boot soles right now, it has made my life easier.
100% love the evolution, by it stopped too short & now we’re back to having a “piste performance” set up & a “soft snow” set up.

GripWalk just falls short of the finish line.
 

Scruffy

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
953
Location
Upstate NY

Andy Mink

I am a half fast skier.
Moderator
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,231
Location
Reno
I really like the GW for walking. It does make a difference. But I don't know the higher stand height and possible extra adjustments depending on the binding make it worthwhile.

As to narrower brakes, I'm baffled at that too. The pendulum is swinging and we're seeing more sub-90 skis now, especially in the mid-70s to mid-80s.
 

onenerdykid

Product Manager, Atomic Ski Boots
Masterfit Bootfitter
Manufacturer
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Posts
8
Location
Altenmarkt, Austria
Personally, I really like GripWalk (and WTR before that) when it comes to replaceable soles. Forget easy walking- it's all about more traction, especially when hiking or scrambling because GripWalk allows for deeper groves and more tread than ISO 5355. It's far better than a solid sole or replaceable 5355 soles in this regard.

It will never become a thing on race boots, don't worry. Real racing bindings will always be 5355 specific. One of the main reasons boot manufacturers are making GripWalk "lifters" for race boots is because freeride athletes often use race boots and they want more traction when hiking and scrambling.

In short, when it comes to GripWalk, forget about easy walking. It's all about more traction and grip for all mountain skiers.
 

Unpiste

Booting down
Skier
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Posts
226
Location
California
In short, when it comes to GripWalk, forget about easy walking. It's all about more traction and grip for all mountain skiers.
This I can see and appreciate. Hiking in DIN soles always makes me a little nervous.

But narrow skis are about more than just racing. (And there's no reason even race skis can't support GripWalk bindings. See the earlier comments on Tyrolia.) I haven't ever seriously considered GripWalk because (1) it's not easy to fit my feet, and my boot-fitter is very much race-oriented and doesn't, AFAIK, carry GripWalk and (2) I still have way too many skis with DIN-only bindings, and while I've made some effort to choose multi-norm bindings when possible, it simply hasn't been possible on most/all of my narrower skis.

I'd certainly like to have GripWalk for the occasional hike, but I just don't think I could justify the time (primarily) and expense (to a much lesser extent) of maintaining two well-fitted, high performance pairs of boots. People who can buy a boot off the shelf and use it without a good half day (as in 12 hours) of cumulative fitting work may feel differently.
 

onenerdykid

Product Manager, Atomic Ski Boots
Masterfit Bootfitter
Manufacturer
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Posts
8
Location
Altenmarkt, Austria
But narrow skis are about more than just racing. (And there's no reason even race skis can't support GripWalk bindings. See the earlier comments on Tyrolia.) I haven't ever seriously considered GripWalk because (1) it's not easy to fit my feet, and my boot-fitter is very much race-oriented and doesn't, AFAIK, carry GripWalk and (2) I still have way too many skis with DIN-only bindings, and while I've made some effort to choose multi-norm bindings when possible, it simply hasn't been possible on most/all of my narrower skis.

I'd certainly like to have GripWalk for the occasional hike, but I just don't think I could justify the time (primarily) and expense (to a much lesser extent) of maintaining two well-fitted, high performance pairs of boots. People who can buy a boot off the shelf and use it without a good half day (as in 12 hours) of cumulative fitting work may feel differently.
Well, real (FIS) race skis use race plates that are designed for very specific bindings and racers will literally freak out if you start messing with their binding platforms. So, the best GW binding you can get will be something in the 14-DIN range and on a commercial race ski (read: non-FIS regulated). If you want an FIS ski, then it will come with a race specific binding that won't ever officially accept GripWalk.

It just depends on what you mean by "race". Commercial skis, for sure. FIS skis, not.

And I definitely understand the existing quiver problem. Very akin to what happened in the bike world with the move to 27.5 wheels and Boost spacing. It will take some time for GripWalk to be a normal thing that we don't think about. Even then, there will still be boot options with solid soles.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brian Finch

Brian Finch

PT, CSCS, Cert- DN, FRCms, M|WOD Coach
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
2,076
Location
Vermont
Well, real (FIS) race skis use race plates that are designed for very specific bindings and racers will literally freak out if you start messing with their binding platforms. So, the best GW binding you can get will be something in the 14-DIN range and on a commercial race ski (read: non-FIS regulated). If you want an FIS ski, then it will come with a race specific binding that won't ever officially accept GripWalk.

It just depends on what you mean by "race". Commercial skis, for sure. FIS skis, not.
That’s a 168cm FIS SL w WCR plate & lifters :)
A34DE742-0470-4BA2-9BBD-605066F5A145.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
23,852
Location
Reno, eNVy
I agree there will always be the race DIN sole...and that will become the exception and not the norm. Again, wile I am using Gripwalk myself and I like it, I still think it was an unnecessary change for the average consumer.

I think the hangover is jsut starting and will go on for the next few years. There are too many bindings that are still in circulation that are not GW compatible and really have no reason to come out of use. I am fortunate to be on the front lines as a bootfitter and while there are GW options now and as it becomes more and more of a standard, there are still the consumers out there on a 5-6 year old Volkl RTM80, which is a fine ski have limited options when choosing a boot. While this is consideration at a specialty shop where you will have a better bootfitter, it is a concern at a big box store where Joe and Jane Skier is dealing with Chad who is scheduled in the ski department after a week in backpacking and his only training is a "Go get 'em tiger" and to ask the customer "what shoe size they are?" and if they say 9, put them in a 27.5, because 2+7=9.

The next time you are in the lift line, just look around how many non indemnified bindings there are...many with newer boots that were probably adjusted (but not tested) with a newer boot. These boots very well were purchased on line or swaps san skis and the adjustments were done prbably at home. Now, also notice how many GW boots are in bindings that are not GW compatible. I am sure msot of these people, even if they were told that they needed a GW compatible binding got the boot home, slammed it in the bindings and said to themselves "That salesperson was jus trying to sell me a binding, these work fine". Yes, they can get squeezed in the binding, but forget that binding releasing in a twisting fall.
 

Andy Mink

I am a half fast skier.
Moderator
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,231
Location
Reno
At the local tire store they have a sign for Subaru owners (and others with similar AWD designs) that they will not replace a single tire if there is more than x % difference in tire diameter. You have to do all four. Maybe a sign in the shop as a cya for boots and bindings? Have there been any lawsuits regarding WTR soles in non-WTR bindings? Seems like a liability on the sales side.

Playing devil's advocate here.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brian Finch

Brian Finch

PT, CSCS, Cert- DN, FRCms, M|WOD Coach
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
2,076
Location
Vermont
I still maintain that the industry should turn it around. GripWalk and walk modes have an incredible capacity to mitigate fatigue – the number one cause of ski injuries and impairments.

When I talk to my Academy kids that I work with professionally, they are all on a very strict run and turn count. It’s usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 runs per day, then conditioning work.

The average Joe and Jean skier has to battle the children into the family station wagon, drive to the mountain, fight through the lodge, deal with screaming kids & luggage and hopefully get on the hill enter then make about the same number of runs if not try and force more because they feel they just paid $187 for this lift ticket.

Average Joe is clearly not in shape like my Academy kids are.
 

Ron

Seeking the next best ski
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Posts
6,498
Location
Steamboat Springs, Co
I have only had mine for a short time and haven't been able to AT ski yet which is why I wanted them. I cant say I can really tell any difference skiing on soft groomers though. I am in Mindbender 130's and the boot feels good on the snow so I don't think I'm losing any measurable performance for the skiing I am doing. They do grip very well when walking though as @onenerdykid pointed out.
 

pliny the elder

Industry Insider
Skier
Joined
May 28, 2019
Posts
77
Location
Somewhere good
At least the battle between grip walk and walk to ride is over. There were already too many standards.
If you ski with a solid soled boot on on foot and a boot with a replaceable toe and heel on the other, you can feel the difference in torsional and lateral rigidity, but that is the only time.
For the average skier, easier walking and replacement are probably a bigger gain than the improved performance that a solid sole offers. The biggest problem we have with gripwalk other than binding compatibility, is when setting the boots up for stance, fore/aft balance and canting, you have to place a 3mm lifter under the heel to approximate the actual stance when in a binding.
If the boot does require canting, we shim it, place a regular sole on the boot to cut the lugs and then put gripwalk soles back on.
Personally, I prefer a solid sole with a lifter, because then you get replacement capability and better performance.

pliny the elder
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
3,809
Location
Denver, CO
The average Joe and Jean skier has to battle the children into the family station wagon, drive to the mountain, fight through the lodge, deal with screaming kids & luggage and hopefully get on the hill enter then make about the same number of runs if not try and force more because they feel they just paid $187 for this lift ticket.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

So true. Those folks will definitely notice more performance on the parking lot than any difference in performance on the hill.

AT boots rule in the lot for sure.
 

Erik Timmerman

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,990
I agree there will always be the race DIN sole...and that will become the exception and not the norm. Again, wile I am using Gripwalk myself and I like it, I still think it was an unnecessary change for the average consumer.

I think the hangover is jsut starting and will go on for the next few years. There are too many bindings that are still in circulation that are not GW compatible and really have no reason to come out of use. I am fortunate to be on the front lines as a bootfitter and while there are GW options now and as it becomes more and more of a standard, there are still the consumers out there on a 5-6 year old Volkl RTM80, which is a fine ski have limited options when choosing a boot. While this is consideration at a specialty shop where you will have a better bootfitter, it is a concern at a big box store where Joe and Jane Skier is dealing with Chad who is scheduled in the ski department after a week in backpacking and his only training is a "Go get 'em tiger" and to ask the customer "what shoe size they are?" and if they say 9, put them in a 27.5, because 2+7=9.

The next time you are in the lift line, just look around how many non indemnified bindings there are...many with newer boots that were probably adjusted (but not tested) with a newer boot. These boots very well were purchased on line or swaps san skis and the adjustments were done prbably at home. Now, also notice how many GW boots are in bindings that are not GW compatible. I am sure msot of these people, even if they were told that they needed a GW compatible binding got the boot home, slammed it in the bindings and said to themselves "That salesperson was jus trying to sell me a binding, these work fine". Yes, they can get squeezed in the binding, but forget that binding releasing in a twisting fall.
38E33F8C-1513-4322-8455-CAEB39C2ACAE.jpeg
 
Top