Gravel/Road Tires?

[Rudi Riet]

Having said that, I really love my road bike with its rim brakes, 25 mm tires, and under 15 lbs weight. It feels like it flies up hills with the Dura-Ace C4 wheel set. Nothing like it - not even the new disc brake road bikes can match it. Even this year’s TDF many of the riders where riding rim brake bikes on today’s climbing stage.

The only reason these teams (notably Ineos Grenadiers and Team Jumbo Visma) are running rim brakes is because they are often in breakaway situations where a quick roadside service is the difference between winning and being one of the peloton. Rim brake bikes have quick release skewers, and the neutral tech support (in the case of the Tour, provided by Mavic) only carries spare wheels for quick release frames (a universal standard) or complete spare bikes (that are high end but not the same setup used by most riders).

So it's a matter of practicality: being able to do a quick wheel change with neutral support (or even a teammate) or rolling the dice with the team car using an electric drill to get a thru-axle out and in or a quick swap to the backup bike (why these teams aren't using thru-axles with levers like DT Swiss is beyond me - probably weight and sponsorship deals).

Having test ridden some of the new disc-only pro-level bikes from Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, and Cervélo, they feel just as climb ready, nimble, and laser quick as the rim brake models. If anything, they're a bit stiffer with a thru-axle setup than the QRs of old. These bikes are every bit as light as their rim brake counterparts, and as every UCI spec bike has a minimum weight of 6.8kg, there are still some frames where extra weight is added on (heavier wheels, aluminum bars, etc.) to get them over the minimum.

And if you look at something like the Open Up or the Cervélo Aspero, if you put on road-specific wheels and tires they get down to that 15 pound weight without any difficulty at all.

Modern gravel bikes are the bicycling equivalent of a one ski quiver: they do a lot of things very well, though for some things it's more prudent to have a specialty tool. But for most riders either a road bike with plenty of tire clearance or a proper gravel bike will do most things really, really well as long as you're not doing big rock gardens, bombing down the Mammoth Mountain Kamikaze course, or trying to set a Strava KOM up Mont Ventoux.

An aside: yesterday's TdF stage victory by Julian Alaphilippe was the first such victory in many, many years on clincher tires. Not tubeless - just plain clinchers, the Specialized Turbo Cotton. Given the overwhelming majority of UCI Pro Tour racers ride tubulars or tubeless (both so it's possible to roll out on a flat tire without losing much control), this is a pretty big deal, if slightly trivial.

 

[Ron]

as weight conscious as I am, I am more interested in aero gains and have put weight back onto my bike in favor of aero gains (now 16.5#). of course, they really dont kick in until about 18mph, they do work. Deeper wheels, aero bar/stem. Even with that I run 28's on Enve 4.5ar's (25mm internal/31 external) so I am maximizing both roll resistance and aero gains. I ride in the mountains but I found no discernible loss's in my climbing by adding a pound to my bike but I know I have gained speed overall. I can tell you that for some reason (wider footprint?) the Ar's climb better/faster than my Bontrager xx4's even though they are slightly heavier. I run disc's which allow faster descents because I can brake much later into turns and the braking action is smooth and predictable. with a 73.4 HTA, the Emonda is more than agile. Yes, solid axles are stiffer.

Great points about why unless you (me) are pro, many things the pros do don't make sense for us to do. I wonder what tires Perez was running today on his crash? I know those Cotton tires are fast but seem to fail so easily.

 

[scott43]

You can't go wrong with deeper rims on a road bike, unless you have very hilly routes. 40mm is pretty good and not too annoying in a cross wind. Mind you, if you're just putting in fitness miles, who the hell cares...

 

[Ron]

FWIW. Enve 4.5 AR's are 50F/55R and super stable in crazy winds while weighing 1550 w/tape valves. (Dt Swiss 240's) If you really wanted to go as light, look at the new Zipp's or the Enve 3.4AR's. you dont give up much in aero gains with the 3.4 vs 4.5 but they cut over 150 grams.

 

[Rudi Riet]

I wonder what tires Perez was running today on his crash? I know those Cotton tires are fast but seem to fail so easily.

Cofidis is sponsored by Michelin, and there are a lot of shots of their bikes on the service car roof running the Michelin Power Time Trial or Power Road tires, the latter of which comes in a TLR variant. But I'm guessing they run tubulars for daily use, and that they're using re-branded Continental Competition or Dugast tires. The tires Perez was running today had a tan sidewall that looks a lot like a Dugast tubular.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

Modern gravel bikes are the bicycling equivalent of a one ski quiver: they do a lot of things very well, though for some things it's more prudent to have a specialty tool. But for most riders either a road bike with plenty of tire clearance or a proper gravel bike will do most things really, really well as long as you're not doing big rock gardens, bombing down the Mammoth Mountain Kamikaze course, or trying to set a Strava KOM up Mont Ventoux

No disagreement here - as I said - I love my gravel bike with its tubeless carbon road wheels (Hollowgram Si TR) on the road and abiilty to switch out the wheel set for my gravel wheels for trail riding - but if I am going to spend the day riding 100+ miles with 7000-9000 ft of climbing - I much rather be on my 2016 Scott Addict with its Dura-Ace C24s. Both bikes are set up by my bike fitter - so I guess what you are saying it is more about the geometry and ride feel of the road bike vs the gravel bike. Yes, you are probably right - the top end disc road bike would handle like my top end road bike bike with rim brakes - I guess I am just not ready to replace my current road bike.

 

[Ron]

but if I am going to spend the day riding 100+ miles with 7000-9000 ft of climbing - I much rather be on my 2016 Scott Addict with its Dura-Ace C24s.

thats an impressive day!

 

[Wannabeskibum]

thats an impressive day!

It's more about endurance fitness than anything else. I weigh under 150 lbs and I don't have legs like tree trunks but I can put out power for hours assuming I take care of the hydration and nutrition. Here in New England we have lots of rolling terrain and a "long climb" is considered to be 5 or 6 miles and 1200 ft of climbing. Here is an example - https://ridewithgps.com/trips/38178649

 

[Ron]

thats a long climb here too. the ride yesterday included a 5.5 mile section with 980 feet but the real climb was in the last 1.5 mile or so. the road goes to hard packed dirt with switchbacks 8-10%.

I love that 18.5% descent! better than climbing it.

 

[Tony Storaro]

You can't go wrong with deeper rims on a road bike,

And they look cool too..

But just a couple of days ago I had to descend at around 60-65 km/h with one hell of a crosswind from the right in heavy traffic and on 50 mm wheels this was one of the scariest experiences ever. I wished my wheels were like 3 mm deep.

 

[Ron]

all deep wheels are not equal, I have no issues at 45mph with winds on the Enve 4.5 Ar's. (50/55). However, iirc, the faster you go the less wind affected your wheels become.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Here is an example - https://ridewithgps.com/trips/38178649

You mean you did that at almost 25 km/h average speed?

Respect!

 

[Ron]

yeah, thats well-done!

 

[Ron]

BTW- I will be getting the new Panaracer GravelKing SS tires next week (38's). I hadn't noticed the release of these this summer. these seem near perfect for Steamboat/Colorado gravel. In fact, Steamboat Gravel is even mentioned (STB GRVL). I have been really happy with the Challenger Grave Grinder 38's but I want to give these a shot.

 

[Tony Storaro]

all deep wheels are not equal, I have no issues at 45mph with winds on the Enve 4.5 Ar's. (50/55). However, iirc, the faster you go the less wind affected your wheels become.

I believe you but I cant afford to splash 3000 dollars on a new pair of wheels when the winter is coming and I need 2 new pairs of Stocklis.

 

[Steve]

It's more about endurance fitness than anything else. I weigh under 150 lbs and I don't have legs like tree trunks but I can put out power for hours assuming I take care of the hydration and nutrition. Here in New England we have lots of rolling terrain and a "long climb" is considered to be 5 or 6 miles and 1200 ft of climbing. Here is an example - https://ridewithgps.com/trips/38178649

Climbing my local ski hill ½ way through your ride.

 

[firebanex]

I've been fairly partial to the Donnelly Xplor MSO's in a 40mm for my mixed riding, plenty of bite and comfy ride. I use the 32mm Strada USH for my 90/10 road tire, just enough to get me through the small bits of nasty gravel around my house till I hit the pavement.

 

[Ron]

I believe you but I cant afford to splash 3000 dollars on a new pair of wheels when the winter is coming and I need 2 new pairs of Stocklis.

Lol. I paid 1850.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

Climbing my local ski hill ½ way through your ride.

And as it turns out I was out there today. Some some magnificent color and lots of hikers

 

[Tony Storaro]

Lol. I paid 1850.

Damn man, that's not fair, you guys have it ALL cheaper over there. The best I can get in Europe is 2500 euros, not fair.