Going Tubeless

[martyg]

Well today, I went tubeless. The wheels were tubeless easy (no rim tape needed), tubeless values came with the bike (and I actually found them after 3 years ;-), and I had sealant lying around from my road tubeless conversion. So, removed the tubes, installed the tubeless valves, position the beads as best as I can, sealant and floor pump and done. Wow, that was much easier than my road tubeless experiment. It's been 6 hours and air is still holding.

Hopefully will be chasing my "pressure of choice" in the next few weeks/months.

I have an article in GearJunkie about finding your optomal tire pressure. I get into the physics of tire pressure and a few if the top people on tube / tire development weigh in. If you do a search for tire pressure on thieir site it should come up.

FYI.... in a roll down test, my ideal tire pressure is 43% faster than max pressure. A huge difference. My window for ideal, most efficient, fastest, on the tires and substrate that I ride most often is 3 psi. Solar gain affects my tire pressure by as much as 50%. Again, a huge difference.

 

[nay]

It can be a bit harder. I got a new tire plugging tool called a Stans Dart. I like that the plug itself is not a gooey "worm" that inevitably dries up when you need it. On the Dart, it's a dry plug that reacts with the latex in the tubeless sealant. I need to do a trial and report back.



OK, there are 4 Tricias in each shot, and 5 or 6 Phils in each shot, which can only mean.........

Tricia is going faster than Phil!



Yup, the Fox 36 is best at charging. Mine seems pretty darn plush with almost no LSC or HSC, but a Pike is more buttery -- and kind of fills the middle ground between a Fox 34 and 36. Conversely, a Lyrik is even less plush than a Fox 36 -- at least the one I rode.

@nay, do you have a coil DHX2 or an air DPX2? Both are money shocks.

Meant to add that I have the DHX2 shock...

 

[Slim]

For people looking for a baseline pressure to start experimenting with:
SILCA Professional Pressure Calculatorinfo.silca.cc › silca-professional-pressure-calculator

 

[Slim]

This has been my experience, too. I've had quite a time getting the tire pressure and rebound and such set up with the Fox Performance 36, which is a new-to-me fork this year on a new bike. I finally have it dialed in, I think. I took ALL of the spacers out of the fork, (I believe there are 5 of them) run it about 10 pounds lighter than recommended after doing the SAG test, and I won't even say what I'm running my 2.6 tires at. (OK, 10.5 in the front on the digital gauge, which reads at 14.5 with the gauge on the pump itself.) I can go so much faster set up this way, because I don't bounce off of every little obstacle on the trail, while descending OR climbing. I run 12.5 pounds on the rear tire, which I know seems ridiculous, but again, no issues, great traction, and it's not hampering my climbing. I believe the shock is backed off by about 8 pounds from recommended.

Those pressures do not seem ridiculous to me. You are a lightweight person right? On big tires, with big suspension.
At 180 lbs, plus bike and gear, I run about 19 psi in my 2.5 rear tire and 14 psi in my 2.8 front tire.

 

[Slim]

1) I carry a presta valve core remover tool for that very reason (they are very small and light). Once the core is out anything thin and sharp can be used to break the seal. I don’t carry that part of the solution such as a very small pick and I probably should.

2) No difference except it’s messy.

I have the Parktool core removal tool at home, but on the bike I I don't carry it. Lot's of brands of valves come with a tiny black plastic oval (~8mm) that is a core removal tool. There are also plenty bike tools that include one. And finally, I carry a tiny Leatherman Squirt pliers multitool, and use the pliers if needed. I find pliers very useful for a variety of things, including valve core removal.
Also carry a spare valve core. They have been know to break or clog up, and the weight is so low,, why not. And replace the valve cores once a year or so.

If you run tubeless, you absolute should carry a tubeless plugger tool. I have not had a problem with them drying up (but the idles one I used was problem less than a year old). Make sure it's quick to access, the sooner you get the plug out, the easier to get it in and the less pumping you need to do.

Not tubeless specific:
Make sure your emergency pump has a hose. To many snapped valves pumping with a rigid mini pump. It's also a lot easier to pump. I liked the design of the Lezyne, but it tended to unscrew the valve core upon removal, deleting all the pumping effort. Now I have a Birzman with a push on head.
(S)Tubolito tubes. A fraction of the size and weight of a normal (spare) inner tube.

 

[Slim]

For people looking to get a gauge, it doesn't have to be digital.
Meisner has gauges in all common tire pressure ranges. Selecting one that matches the pressure you need, will give you far more accurate results. In other words, trying to read 13-14 psi on a gauge going up to 180- psi is not a recipe for succes.
For MTB Meisnner makes a 30spi one. That is plenty for my mtb used gives good reading even with plus tires. I think I paid about $30

Bicycle Gauges Archives - Accu-Gage by G.H. Meiser

Mini- bicycle gauges to check your pressure on either Presta or Schraeder valve tires. Now Introducing: Low pressure bicycle tire gauges for Fat Bike Tires. Designed alongside Quality Bike Parts, these units are perfect for Fat Bike tires requiring low pressure for a better ride.

www.ghmeiser.com

 

[Slim]

I have an article in GearJunkie about finding your optomal tire pressure. I get into the physics of tire pressure and a few if the top people on tube / tire development weigh in. If you do a search for tire pressure on thieir site it should come up.

FYI.... in a roll down test, my ideal tire pressure is 43% faster than max pressure. A huge difference. My window for ideal, most efficient, fastest, on the tires and substrate that I ride most often is 3 psi. Solar gain affects my tire pressure by as much as 50%. Again, a huge difference.

@martyg great article (https://gearjunkie.com/mountain-bike-tire-pressure-psi)!

I would add that you only mentioned rolling resistance. Often, the lowest rolling resistance pressure is so low that handling is compromised in grippy, high speed corners.
So usually I recommend doing some figure 8 pumping drills to see if the tire doen't squirm to much at the pressure you selected. And the other issue is rim strikes. That too, might require a higher tire pressure.

 

[Tony S]

I took ALL of the spacers out of the fork,

This. +1

 

[nay]

This. +1

I don’t think we talk enough about taking volume out of air shocks with these spacers. Bikes come set up standard like this from bike shops, and it seems spacers should be a tool if you need them, not a starting point the average rider would have no idea how to back off. They change they make is substantial. Why do we need to reduce air volume so much as a standard design approach?

I think I’m going to pull the second one and see if my actual fork adjustments become more sensitive. There was almost no sensitivity with just 2 in a 150mm fork for me.

 

[AmyPJ]

Those pressures do not seem ridiculous to me. You are a lightweight person right? On big tires, with big suspension.
At 180 lbs, plus bike and gear, I run about 19 psi in my 2.5 rear tire and 14 psi in my 2.8 front tire.

Yes, 125 lbs. I'm glad to hear you are running yours that low. Makes me feel better that I'm not crazy liking mine so low.

 

[Doug Briggs]

After fixing my valve cores (they were clogged with sealant) I put my DHF 2.25" at 16 and the rear Ardent 2.25" at 22. Boy was that stiff. They are 27.5s.

The rear especially felt more sloppy running straight than when it was soft. Its cornering grip seemed more slippery than when softer. I tried higher as we do have lots of sharp rocks in places in places that you like to run fast.

I had been running 13 - 14 front and 19 - 20 rear. I may not soften the front as much as before, but the rear is going to 19 for the next ride.

I weigh about 190 and don't kit out heavy.

Would a wider front tire feel softer? Be grippier?

 

[Tom K.]

I don’t think we talk enough about taking volume out of air shocks with these spacers. Bikes come set up standard like this from bike shops, and it seems spacers should be a tool if you need them, not a starting point the average rider would have no idea how to back off. They change they make is substantial. Why do we need to reduce air volume so much as a standard design approach?

I think I’m going to pull the second one and see if my actual fork adjustments become more sensitive. There was almost no sensitivity with just 2 in a 150mm fork for me.

So true. My lightweight wife's 150 mm Liv came with THREE volume reducers up front, and a 0.6 in the back. First ride? Half travel. With all spacers removed, and sag set correctly, she uses a lot more, and gains a much cushier ride.

@nay, I've removed all my VRs before, and it helps utilize all the travel, but the pedaling loses a bit of snappiness, and the fork gets a little divey. Both of those can be recaptured with a little more LSC, but there goes your small bump compliance. No free lunch, I guess.

I put my DHF 2.25" at 16 and the rear Ardent 2.25" at 22. Boy was that stiff. They are 27.5s.

Would a wider front tire feel softer? Be grippier?

Provided your rims are wide enough to support it, a true 2.4 or 2.6 tire could be run at lower pressure, yielding a bit softer, grippier ride. But there are TONS of variables in this. On your Maxxis tires, for instance, there are at least three levels of casing stiffness available, and all three have a very different ride feel.

 

[Ron]

the Enve PSI chart (you dont need to be running Enve) is probably the best out there and it's based on rim internal width which is key. As @Tom K. posted, you do need to take the sidewall construction into account but this chart is what I use for road and gravel bikes and have found it to be spot-on, Enve suggests these as starting points. YMMV and might vary +/- a couple PSI. @Doug Briggs can you run a wider tire on the rear of your bike? 2.6's are still my choice. BTW, I hope to get some pics up on my 29+ with 3.0 tires. I just picked it up from the shop yesterday afternoon.

Tire Pressure - ENVE

This page is about helping you go faster with more confidence. Everything about the design and construction of your ENVE wheelset exists for this purpose.

www.enve.com

 

[Tony S]

Why do we need to reduce air volume so much as a standard design approach?

I think I know the answer to this. It's the same as the answer to the following questions:

"Why does my bike shop always add air to my tires so they are like rocks? Without even telling me?"
"Why does my ski shop always try to detune my tips and tails?"
"Why does the waiter always put the white wine in ice water, making it so cold I can't taste it?"

Because businesses go out of their way to avoid doing things that make the average customer complain loudest and most often.

"You worked on my bike and I got a flat halfway through my first ride!"
"You worked on my skis, and I caught an edge and separated my shoulder on my first run!"
"This restaurant is so clueless they don't know that white wine is supposed to be served cold!"

In the case of spacers ... A big lug of a user goes on a test ride and tries as hard as he can to bottom out the suspension. If he succeeds, he doesn't buy the bike. If it bounces back from anything, like a beach ball, it's awesome.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On a less rant-y note, there is, of course a place for spacers. Obviously if you're a big person you might need a more progressive action to keep from using up all the travel all the time. Similarly, if your local riding is, like, 15 minutes of smooth going followed by two three-foot drops, you're going to want your suspension to behave one way. If, on the other hand, you're like me and your local riding is a non-stop latticework of two-inch-high wet roots, you're going to want your suspension to behave in a different way.

 

[Ron]

^^^^. Well Said good-sir! Especially about making white and rose wines too cold . (same goes for beer too).

Small bump compliance. and mid-stroke/rapid impact action......

 

[Tony S]

Meisner has gauges in all common tire pressure ranges. Selecting one that matches the pressure you need, will give you far more accurate results. In other words, trying to read 13-14 psi on a gauge going up to 180- psi is not a recipe for succes.
For MTB Meisnner makes a 30spi one. That is plenty for my mtb used gives good reading even with plus tires. I think I paid about $30

+1
I have one and have been very happy with it. Durable, consistent, legible, and doesn't need batteries. I leave it in my car (which often gets hot inside in the summer), and because it's mechanical I don't worry about it being damaged.

 

[Ron]

I have a 15psi Meisner. I wish I had seen the 30 but this works for my Fat bike (typically 3-4 in winter) and now my 29+, 13-15

 

[Philpug]

^^^^. Well Said good-sir! Especially about making white and rose wines too cold . (same goes for beer too).

I love me an ice cold Bud on a hot summer day...ideally from a can..an 8oz can, so cold I can hardly taste it. Note I said "an", one is fine.

 

[Ron]

I love me an ice cold Bud on a hot summer day...ideally from a can..an 8oz can, so cold I can hardly taste it. Note I said "an", one is fine.

well, duuuhh, if its bud, it needs to be ice cold so you cant taste it.

 

[Tom K.]

I love the Meisner gages, but drop it once on a concrete floor, and bye bye accuracy.

This happened to a friend. I would never drop such a fine piece of instrumentation.

Since then, I've gone to the cheap, plastic, probably made in China digital gages. They are precise, which matters much more than accuracy, unless we're sharing gages......