• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Getting In Shape For Skinning

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
Wasn't sure if I should put this in the Backcountry thread or here but felt is fit better here.

In my original thread about a backpack for inbound skinning:

https://www.pugski.com/threads/small-backpack-for-skinning-inbounds.16517/

There was a drift on the physical aspects of it and getting in shape for the event I’m going to do. I thought it would be better to pull it from the original and give it its own thread.

This was my post from that thread that started the drift.

“I started doing some rough math in my head last week on how long this is going to take based on reply posts in this thread and what type of shape I need to be in. Holy Sh!t!!! I have grossly underestimated the event and overestimated my abilities to "suck it up buttercup". In my naive little brain, as long as I did a cardio workout almost daily for about 30-45 minutes and lifted weights twice a week, add in eating better and always choosing the healthier way (stairs not elevator etc.), I should be fine. That and I keep forgetting I've been retired from the Marines for over 20 years and can't just suck it up, take some vitamin M (Motrin) and move on. WRONG!

If I don't stop moving the day I go to do this, except to pee and take a 30 minute lunch break, I'm looking at a 6-7 hour workout! Friday, I upped my workout to an hour of hard (for me) cardio keeping the HR between 130 and 140. Towards the end of the hour on the rower (30 bike, then 30 rower) I do a sprint for one minute and watch my recovery rate (so far so good). I also added in all types of lunges and do weighted leg pulls (same motion as skinning up) to build up my hips. Twice a week I'm lifting for a full hour. Each day I do some sort of yoga.

At the end of October I'm planning on the cardio to be at 2 hours and be able to do a two-minute sprint. I think as long as I hold that and every now and again do a three hour stretch, I'll be OK. The day of the event isn't a race so I can pace myself.

Well, at least I should end up in pretty good shape.

I can't believe how far off I was.”


@Promoz replied :

“I wouldn't count much on weight training to help with this. Running on other side would do tremendous help. No idea how much into running you are, but let's assume you can run normally. Hour of running, several days a week, would be pretty much enough to be in good enough shape. I wouldn't worry about adding interval training into this, as you won't be racing anyway, so just normal Z2 (65-83% of max HR) trail run will do just fine. Now if running is not your thing, and you were never doing it (much), going for 1h run pretty much mission impossible. Then I'm not really sure what would help
clip_image001.png

PS: If you manage to move a bit faster through transitions (I'm always slow in that and hardly ever make it under 10min, unless I really hurry, but I try not to, as normally it's super nice to be on top of mountain enjoying time alone there
clip_image001.png
) I still think you are more into 4-5h max then 6-7
clip_image001.png



My response is -

I agree on the weight training part but I’m leaving it in as part of my need to get healthier. My life needs weight/strength training in it and there are plenty of side benefits; better balance, bone strength and I think tendon and/or ligaments become healthier as well.

I used to be an avid runner when in the Marines. Long distance was my thing. After my first ACL surgery, I found that even after only running ¼ mile, my knee would swell; not hurt, just swell. This is even after getting in pretty good shape and it being a few years after the surgery. I’m considering giving it another try, but no until after I drop some weight. I want to give my knees the best chance for success.

Thanks for the thoughts on the transitions. That is something I can practice at home in my yard. I’m planning on practicing kick turns there as well.


@ LiquidFeet wrote:

@L&AirC, you are training for a marathon on snow. Have you considered looking at marathon training strategies?”

My response is –

This is brilliant! I had always been an endurance athlete so some things I just think of in those terms, but it would be good for me to sit down and come up with a planned-out schedule. Plus, I haven’t done anything like this in over 20 years so getting new data and strategies would be good.

@cantunamunch wrote:

“I'm not going to advise you about workout specifics since I believe discipline is the biggest hurdle and you have that. Something that might help with the mental game in the long run tho: https://www.amazon.com/Brave-Athlete-Calm-Down-Occasion/dp/1937715736

My response is –

It’s on my audible purchase list. I scanned what the book is about and if nothing else, it seems like it would help with coaching and since I tend to self-coach… Fairly mixed reviews though.

Though it might have come off that way in my “Holy Sh!t!!” post, I’m not anxious about it. More excited than anything. It’s actually motivated me to train harder, more often and for longer. Not do anything crazy like go to light beer, but I’m taking it way more serious.

@jmeb wrote:

“This probably goes without saying -- but the best training for skinning is skinning. The next best things are endurance cardio workouts where you increase your aerobic fitness. Like @Primoz says -- longer, less intense workouts. Trail running is great. Running, biking, even two straight hours watching a movie on an elliptical. No need to go for interval or anaerobic training unless you're looking to really push your speed.

If you can, I'd dedicate time beforehand to a steady build-up of skinning laps. Start with just 1 or maybe 2 laps. Then add a lap each time. If you get to a place where you can do 4,000ft without much issue, you'll be able to push it to 6,000' when you really want it.”

My response is –

Agreed. We’re still a couple months from having enough snow to do that though. I have reconstructed my work out currently to be more of the long and steady and trying to stay above 130 but below 150. From what I’ve read, even though I’ll be out of my fat burn zone, I’ll still burn more fat here because even though I’ll be burning a lower percentage of fat, I’ll be burning more total calories so it ends up being more total fat.

As with most folks my biggest challenges is not letting work or life encroach on the time I need to workout. At least my wife is understanding on me being a little selfish right now.

Ken
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,905
Location
Behavioral sink
Yeh, about that. When you're in that HR regime expect a 12-20 minute energized feel at the start, and some huge energy holes, like 45-90 minutes in. Very important not to sprint the start, or you'll just make the energy holes deeper.
 
Thread Starter
TS
L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
OK. First, I’ll come out and say I was about to throw in the towel on this. Work kept getting in the way of working out. I know that’s on me for letting it happen, but none the less it did and my work outs for close to a month now have consisted of me sitting at a computer or in a conference room for 10+ hours a day, yoga here and there and coaching on the weekends.

I’m on vacation this week and finally yesterday went to the mountain to see where I was regarding achieving this. I wanted to see if I could get at least three trips and hopefully four up and down and make any last gear adjustments. Tried a couple different things and then settled on what would actually go up with me. Wanted to ditch the helmet but decided toting the extra weight was less of a concern than not having it. Oddly enough, the only time I fell was when I was skinning and didn’t have the helmet on.

There was a couple of logistical issues to work out; the National Telemark racers were training yesterday for the race starting today through Saturday and some of the trails are closed from this and lack of snow. First run up was a way I never went before and hope to never do again. I had to deal with a rather steep part that I planned to take diagonally, but it was icy where I had to cross so I mistakenly thought I would just suck it up for the 50 feet I had to cover going straight up but it was too steep and my skins didn’t hold and down I went. My attempts at self-arresting were failing but I wasn’t moving fast and was heading to a padded snow gun so I just rode it out. Once back on my feet I decided to take my skis off and hike up in an even steeper section but was softer snow and that worked fine.

When skiing down, I noticed they made some changes to how the Tele race course was being set and the trail I normally skin up was again available so I went back to that route.
I eventually made it up and down three times. I took my time up and down and was trying to keep my heart rate under 165. My transitions at the top are right around ten minutes (I’m not racing) but at the bottom are closer to 20-25. This is because I stop to go pee and drink some water without guzzling. It’s 1 mile up and I ski down the same trails. Round trip at my slow pace is 1 hour ten minutes. I could have gone up and down faster but was hoping to get 4 runs in. Physically I could have gotten up another time but by the second run the snow was very slushy and skiing down had become a challenge for me. I need to work more lunges in this week.

The biggest stressor for me was telemark skiing down in the slushy snow. I’m not that good at telemark skiing to start with and bumped up slush doesn’t help. I should have started earlier so I would have 3 runs done before it got slushy, but I was goofing off in the morning and got a late start (11:00 AM).

I was considering going this Friday but the forecast is rain all day and is the same for most of New England. Aside from that my next chance at doing this is going to be 3/20. On the weekend I should be able to skin up a couple times after coaching. If on the 20th I start skinning up by 0800, I should be done early afternoon. Even if I don't get a chance to do all 6 runs, I'm fairly happy with being able to do three and not be hurting today.

Ken


Ken
 
Thread Starter
TS
L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
As all of you are aware, COVID -19 has really thrown a wrench in the works. Provided the snow is still there, I have another "shot at the title" this weekend. CM is closed but I don't need the lift anyways. I'm going to email the SSD and let him know my plans and will bring a radio with me just in case. I'm thinking it's going to be a rough ride because I'm pretty sure they didn't groom after announcing they were shutting down.

If this doesn't pan out I'm going to look for alternatives. One thing I'm considering is skinning up Tuckerman's twice. Biggest concern there will be me tele skiing down through all the moguls (I'll let the Jerry of the Day sight know when I'll be there). I won't ski the bowl though. Made a promise to my wife after my first adventure there that didn't end well for me.

Also thinking about switching it over to swimming. I'm not a fast swimmer but can swim long distances. It does get boring after the first couple hours though. I haven't been swimming in almost two years but could get in shape pretty quick.
 

Rod9301

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Posts
2,443
As all of you are aware, COVID -19 has really thrown a wrench in the works. Provided the snow is still there, I have another "shot at the title" this weekend. CM is closed but I don't need the lift anyways. I'm going to email the SSD and let him know my plans and will bring a radio with me just in case. I'm thinking it's going to be a rough ride because I'm pretty sure they didn't groom after announcing they were shutting down.

If this doesn't pan out I'm going to look for alternatives. One thing I'm considering is skinning up Tuckerman's twice. Biggest concern there will be me tele skiing down through all the moguls (I'll let the Jerry of the Day sight know when I'll be there). I won't ski the bowl though. Made a promise to my wife after my first adventure there that didn't end well for me.

Also thinking about switching it over to swimming. I'm not a fast swimmer but can swim long distances. It does get boring after the first couple hours though. I haven't been swimming in almost two years but could get in shape pretty quick.
I find swimming boring after the first 15 minutes.
 
Thread Starter
TS
L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
I find swimming boring after the first 15 minutes.

I know. The way I swim distance is even more boring. I tether myself to the guard rail of the deck and stay in the same spot so I only see the same spot at the bottom of the pool the whole time. Wish I could afford to put a flat screen tv down there :cool:. I judge distance by time. When I was young, 30 minutes was about a mile. Now it's probably closer to 45 minutes. I was never a fast swimmer but could swim all day.

To combat the boredom I listen to music. I have waterproof earbuds and found a seller that repackaged old iPods for swimming. IIRC, they use parylene gas. I download a playlist at the right duration and cadence and when done I stop. I messed up one time listening to too fast cadence (playlist for spinning) while swimming. One of the only times I could feel myself sweating while swimming in a pool. Thought my heart would burst too :geek: .

The only thing I don't like about the set up is I have to wear a swim cap to keep the earbuds in. Being follicly challenged it is probably better for me but I find it uncomfortable.
 
Thread Starter
TS
L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
On the outside chance anyone is still wondering, I've put this on hold. Since there is a chance I could end up needing medical attention from straining my body so much (or just a fall), I feel it would be irresponsible to do anything like that now that Stephen King has written the script for 2020. That and the last place I want to go anytime soon is a medical facility. I'm barely comfortable going to the grocery store.

I have to remind myself, though in pretty good shape for being 60, I am 60, a desk jockey, and might drink/eat a bit more than I should. I'm not a young healthy Marine anymore (though when I look at and think of things, I still do it through the eyes of a Marine. Thank God my wife is here to remind me with "Honey, the last time you did something like that was 30 years ago. Are you sure?"

So this is on hold. Once the dust settles I will do something and will want to do the skin up 6 times too. I'm hoping to get better tele boots this fall. Now that when I tele ski, it actually resembles tele skiing, I'm finding out my boots suck and are starting to hurt my feet, especially the top (from the bellows I guess) and the little toe edge along the whole foot on each side.

I appreciate all the input I've gotten in this thread and the others.

Stay safe and wash your hands.

Ken
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,905
Location
Behavioral sink
. Now that when I tele ski, it actually resembles tele skiing, I'm finding out my boots suck and are starting to hurt my feet, especially the top (from the bellows I guess) and the little toe edge along the whole foot on each side.

I appreciate all the input I've gotten in this thread and the others.

Stay safe and wash your hands.

Ken

Check your footbed - you may have too much footbed volume in the bellows zone. Especially if you just dropped in your alpine ones.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Thanks for giving an update. Yes, I bet more people than me and cantuna are still wondering. Your decision is a wise one.

Note the responses to the thread about the 2-hour lesson with a 1-year-old. How well did that go when the OP never returned with the follow-up? I really wanted to know what happened.
 
Thread Starter
TS
L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
Check your footbed - you may have too much footbed volume in the bellows zone. Especially if you just dropped in your alpine ones.

it is the likely suspect. It‘s an off the shelf surefeet green one. There is a local telemark shop close to the mountain no talked to home about it and he stated the same and also said the boot wasn’t that good of a boot. I thought it was weird that it just started hurting this season when I’ve had them for a few seasons. I’m thinking it’s because I’m starting to finally bend the bellow. :huh:

The boots were cheap and I bought them off amazon as the size would fit my foot the best. My foot width measures something like 96 at the widest and these boots were the narrowest I could find In tele boots. Not sure why tele skiers all have wide feet.

When I got them it was really just to skin up so I wasn’t concerned about getting good gear or having them fitted. I didn’t think I would like tele so much. I do like the challenge and love the workout. Not hanging up my alpine gear anytime soon, but I really want to do more tele skiing.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top