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Fluor wax ban

KevinF

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I'm sure the chemical engineers at the various wax companies have been working overtime to find something else that enhances glide. I'd guess you'd see the next couple years featuring different wax additives from the various companies until the "winner" is found.
 

Doug Briggs

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Wow. I wonder how this will trickle down to lower levels of racing.
 

eok

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Interesting. The ski wax industry - in general - switched from C8 fluoro to C6 to comply with the new PFC 2020 regs. My understanding is the new regs are supported/backed by the EU & US (EPA). The fluoro C6 molecule breaks down more readily (and is considered much "safer") than the C8, thus the change. However, C6 based fluoro waxes reportedly don't perform as well as C8 versions - but still better than non-fluoro wax.

Anyway, I assumed the PFC 2020 regs would quell the fluoro stigma. So, the stance FIS is taking is a bit of a surprise.

BTW: I'm not a racer, so I really don't care if fluoro wax goes away.
 

JTurner

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It’ll be interesting what effect this has at lower levels of racing. WC athletes don’t pay for their wax, but if it gets banned at lower levels that soon it turns a lot of wax boxes into expensive paperweights.
 

Doug Briggs

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A ban on overlays, IIRC, has been instituted in youth racing along with restrictions on larger quivers of skis (trainers, racing skis) in order to level the field as well as help keep racing fun and affordable for all, not just those that can pay for the best.

The flouro restrictions, though, are impossible to enforce at any level other than the top; there isn't a mechanism for enforcement unless they come up with a simple, easy 'litmus' style test. You just can't be seen putting on overlays at the top. There is nothing realistically preventing you from hot waxing with fluoros. I think that it might cause some problems from those playing by the rules and those that choose to ignore them at all levels of the sport.
 

Primoz

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This is out for quite a while, and that's reason why most of companies already have non-fluoro stuff out. Not talking about CH waxes, but "HF" and overlay stuff. On lower level, there has been few national bans on fluoro waxes already (junior xc skiing in Norway...), but I have absolutely no idea how FIS is going to enforce this ban. I don't think they will be running chemical tests in finish area, and I'm sure they won't be running around wax rooms on evening/morning before the race, so this sort of bans seems ridiculous to me, as I don't think there's any way to enforce them, except to play on "being fair and stick with rules" card, which is insane to think it will work.

WC athletes don’t pay for their wax
Athletes don't, but teams or companies do. There's not a single piece of wax in WC that is given for free, regardless if it's Swix, Toko, Holmenkol, Maplus or any other company. Contrary to skis, boots and bindings, that are handed out for free by companies (well... nothing is free on the end but still), waxes and poles (if not by ski manufacturer like Rossi is supplying them, and I don't think there's any other ski company but Rossi with ski poles in WC) are always paid.
 
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Erik Timmerman

Erik Timmerman

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One article that I read said that there will be a litmus type test. I wonder how sensitive it would be. Would it detect skis that had been used with fluoro wax years before? Would you have to get rid of your brushes that might transfer traces of old wax to your skis?
 

sparty

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One article that I read said that there will be a litmus type test. I wonder how sensitive it would be. Would it detect skis that had been used with fluoro wax years before? Would you have to get rid of your brushes that might transfer traces of old wax to your skis?
Nah, don't get rid of them, just helpfully offer them to your competitors at the start.
 

Tony S

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crgildart

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It’ll be interesting what effect this has at lower levels of racing. WC athletes don’t pay for their wax, but if it gets banned at lower levels that soon it turns a lot of wax boxes into expensive paperweights.
Beer league geeks will still be using cheater wax on their cheater GS skis. If anything, that demographic has very high disposable income and will push the prices up higher and higher as the supplies dwindle. Keep it, wait awhile, then post on auction sites.
 

Marker

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In our industry, FT-IR analysis of the surface of photovoltaic module backsheets can distinguish between polyvinyl fluoride (great!), polyvinylidene difluoride (pretty good, not great), FEVE (fluorinated coating, okay), polyester (ugh), and polyamide (bad...). A handheld FT-IR spectrometer suffices in the field, which is needed to filter out warranty claims.

C8, C6 and C4 fluorinated waxes may have distinctive differences in their FT-IR fingerprints vs each other and hydrocarbon waxes. Other portable detectors like XRF (x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy - doesn't have anything to do with elemental fluorine itself) can just detect elemental composition without any structural information. I haven't bothered to look further as I have a real R&D job to do when lunch is over...
 

KevinF

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Beer league geeks will still be using cheater wax on their cheater GS skis. If anything, that demographic has very high disposable income and will push the prices up higher and higher as the supplies dwindle. Keep it, wait awhile, then post on auction sites.

Sounds like an investment opportunity. Go buy some of the 900g bulk sets of LF and HF everything and sell it off in a few years. :cool:
 

cantunamunch

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Sounds like an investment opportunity. Go buy some of the 900g bulk sets of LF and HF everything and sell it off in a few years. :cool:

Or an order-your-cheap-fluoros-from-China-via-Moldovan-Package-Shipper opportunity. Kinda exactly like happened with steroids.
 

Tony S

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Yeah because the main thing that determines who wins a beer league race is the wax on the skis :roflmao:

Right. I'm with @Johnny V. .

But seriously, it matters vastly more to me on the Nordic front, where a great wax job might allow me to hang with herself for 20k before I keel over. (Vs. collapsing in the snow after the first big hill, begging for an oxygen mask.) Yes, I could sabotage her skis, but then someone else would show up and she and I would BOTH be dropped like hot rocks.
 

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