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Flats vs Clip-in : 2019 version

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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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Josh, you ride a single speed sometimes, right? No one ever has or will ever win any competitive race against geared competition of equal skill and fitness, so why would you ever go out and ride when you know you will be unhappy on a bike that is inferior. I mean, there is no joy in that situation, right? You must feel miserable. Now I'm sad for you, thank a lot.

one thing mike your probably faster climbing than me right now, that you can be sad of ;)

I do ride a SS, I subjectively love the feeling of simplicity and lack of thinking about gearing. I also objectively love the lighter weight, no derail to break, and how on the right trail it does nt just feel faster but is faster. You know that Sub 29 minute time I did around adam's Camp? that was actually on my Kona Honzo single speed. But I dont go around telling people to ride a Single speed because its better though.......I will tell them that can learn a ton about riding from riding one.

https://www.strava.com/segments/16377469

I have no delusion off thinking I could out pedal Josh Dillon even in 2013 when I was riding 6-7 days a week. Now I am slow as crap but have been riding way more this month just not stravaing everything. but I actually do think that setting that KOM was partially due riding a Single speed for it. A single speed can get out of most turns way quicker than a geared FS because of how well you can pump and how snappy they pedal.

I also wanted to point out that there have been XC races where the faster person out of everyone has been a single speed. There were a couple XC races in pittsburgh I won overall on a SS against all the geared bikes as well. There are some course where that would never be possible. Heck Gerry Pflug won the Shenandoah 100 overall on a SS at age 46!
 
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Josh Matta

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I actually think a SS in faster some places...

Flats again I keep hearing about keeping your feet weighted but I am pretty sure I already do that....remember I raced expert level BMX(although I used clipless for that as well) and dirt jumped as a kid.....and again its a ton of money to try something.
 

Philpug

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Like many here I too started my mountain biking on clipless back in the mid 90's, what a difference over my toe clips, they were the game changer in my riding. I recall the first day I was out on them, it was a mudfest and to this day I will still claim I came with more of the trail on me than I left but I was completely sold on the efficiency. Clipping in (and out) was second nature for me, no issues as all, I rode this way for the better part of two decades...then I moved west. When I started riding different terrain, I started finding some short comings for me. Where I wanted different foot placement on the pedal, it just didn't work, the foot would slip off. I was finding some terrain where I just was not confident enough to clip one shoe in (talk about LOSS of efficiency) I started seeing flats around especially with a lot of the locals. I came across some platforms that had SPD's integrated because I wasn't ready to give up my trusted SPDs and they worked well. Tricia mentioned the concept of flats with thense new fangled 5Ten shoes, then I started noticing a lot of 5Ten type shoes and shop guys wearing them even while they were at work. I thought they look a helluva lot more comfortable than my SPD shoes. (yes I know you can get 5Ten's with SPD slots). Tricia never was fully confident on SPD's and after her crash took away what little confidence she did have. In fact, Tricia is the one that made me even notice and later consider going to flats. If it wasn't for flats, I can say with complete confidence, I doubt we would be riding today because Tricia probably would not have gotten back on a bike if it wasn't for flats.

I don't think anyone here will question, that clipless are more efficient than flats, but for some that Nth degree efficiency comes at cost, be it confidence, comfort or whatever their reason is and it it is important to that rider, it is just as important as efficiency.
 
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Josh Matta

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I think learning to track stand well takes away any chance of a clip fall or hell any slow speed fall in general. I am curious how many people who like flat pedals better know how to track stand or heck have even attempted to learn it.
 

AmyPJ

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I learned how to unclip because I rode clipped in for a full year of MTB, and a few years of fire roads and some paved prior to that. It's not a matter of not knowing how to use them, it's a matter of I got beaten up pretty badly from crashing BECAUSE of them.

I have two very strong friends--female riders--who rode clipped in for YEARS, who switched to flats last year, and aren't going back! They prefer the flat pedals overall.

As to the advantages, I told you. But, for your reading pleasure: https://www.bicycling.com/training/g20033898/switch-to-flat-pedals-for-major-mountain-biking-gains/
https://mbaction.com/should-you-be-riding-flat-pedals/ https://www.mtbiking.com.au/how-to/bike-tech/flat-pedals-vs-clips
This video is a humorous look at it, and also talks about the advantages of both. Both are good--ride what you like!
And wait, is this Danny MacCaskill riding in the mud...in flats?? https://www.singletracks.com/blog/m...macaskill-rides-his-mountain-bike-in-the-wet/

So, maybe you ought to try them. It might improve your skill set even more! :huh:
 
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Josh Matta

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again honestly Danny can crazy thing. I measure success buy if I can ride it and how fast can I ride it. They also keep advocating this safer and quicker to get to the ground which is literally untrue. You can get to the ground quicker on clipless there isnt a giant grippy pedal in your way. The dont be puller comes up again. Again there are literally trail section around here I have never seen cleared on flat even by people who literally make money riding bikes.

I still contend you really did not know how to unclip if you were getting beaten up by riding clips.
 

martyg

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Chris Blevins...

Blevins-Evo-Colin-Belise-62.jpg
 
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Josh Matta

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BTW I cleaned that slick rock climb first try.............
 

Monique

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I agree for those that dont spend couple hours in a flat grass field learning to unclip and clip back in, flats are way easier to get off the bike on. what makes thing hoenstly easier is having a dropper.

OMG. I spent years riding clipless before trying flats. Then I tried clipless again for several years. I wish you could accept that some people have spent serious time with both and ... shockingly ... came to a different conclusion than you did. If you argue that I am not that good a rider, I am fine with that - but it ain't because I'm riding flats.
 
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Josh Matta

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I think you had some really slippery soles on your clipless shoes. Because it sounds like you could unclip but then you had no grip.
 

Doug Briggs

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I don't have a horse in this race.

One thing that I found when I started using clipless was that they can be tight and difficult to twist out of. UNTIL I realized that the tension was adjustable. Just like ski bindings. But different.

Some random comments relating to topics in this thread.

I ride with my SPDs on the loosest setting. I can twist my feet while staying clipped in. I can release easily and quickly. I clean and lube my pedals to insure that they release easily. I too like to utilize the clipped in 'feature' of clipless pedals to lift the bike in certain situations. I deliberately try not to take people to places I know they will fail. Some people enter races to be social. How is it that we clip into clipless pedals :huh:
 
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Josh Matta

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clipless comes because they were named because they did the job of toe clips with out the toe clip.
 

Tom K.

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On my throttle-assisted ebike, I'm not sure it matters what style of pedal I use.
 

AmyPJ

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https://www.mtbiking.com.au/how-to/bike-tech/flat-pedals-vs-clips

Reading this article more, the guy is saying he spun out on clips because of the ability to pull up but the Seth's BIke hacks video is showing the opposite...

Which one is it Amy?
You tell me! Maybe a different tire, different terrain, played into it.

Josh, you are one of those lucky folks who clearly is an incredibly gifted athlete. Most of us aren't! You need to remember that. There are also things that stronger guys in particular can do on bikes that many women CAN'T simply due to strength. And that's not saying women are weak (God knows, I know how strong I am) but relatively speaking, men are stronger and tend to possess less fear. I won't ride over a log like that ever, and I DON'T CARE! My biggest detriment, both skiing and biking, is I get into my own head way too much. Flats help me get out of my head a little. Period. AND my climbing got FASTER on flats, so :huh:

Telling people that they must suck at biking because they can't do a track stand (I can but not very well) or they suck because they can't do this or that is pretty presumptuous and arrogant, honestly. I can do stuff on my bike that I couldn't do 3 or 5 years ago and THAT'S all that matters to me. I used to get gassed to the point of exhaustion on a 6 mile ride, now, that's a warm up ride or an easy day. I have no aspirations to be a pro racer, I have no aspirations to tackle big gap jumps or bunny hop through a rock garden. I just want to have fun and get some exercise outside! Makes for a better ski season, biking does.
 
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Josh Matta

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My original riding buddy is still the most technically skilled rider I know. She only weigh 130lb and is 5'9. it really isnt strength it WAY more skill.

61861629_10157583086473923_9219927172435673088_n.jpg


She is literally the only person I ever seen do a no handed track stand.

65632671_10157637042773923_5503432417190346752_n.jpg


I also think you need to work at everything, I probably spent days learning how to track stand. Like I uses to go out for 20 minute and practice track standing. Gifted maybe but honestly I do not think I am, in fact right now I am certain you could out climb me especially at altitude...well unti one of those pesky swtich back came up;) The fact I dont think I am special, probably makes me harder on others, with biking though I am honestly shit for how long I have been doing it.
 

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Somewhere... on the internet... far in the future... there was, there is,, a Utube video that demonstrates there are no efficiency gains of clipless over flats for mtn biking.

There are likely some that demonstrate some gains as well,

But the margins are slim at best, and preference and style speak volumes!
 
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