Flats vs Clip-in : 2019 version

[Tricia]

The good news is, I was stinkin' fast on both the downhill and uphill sections

I'm a strong climber--@4ster knows this

did you read the same thing? you ljust quoted her talking about those climbing switchbacks then face palm?

I read it and don't see a request for input on her pedals. I see someone who is pleased with the speed in the uphill and also an emphasis on being a strong climber.

I know you're a strong cyclist, and I know you're right about efficiency but forcing your side of the pedal debate on someone who clearly enjoys riding flats is like telling a cat lover that they need to own a dog instead of a cat.
Its disrespectful of a person's right to make a choice which surprises me because it goes against your belief regarding personal choice.

 

[scott43]

Just a personal observation..I'd say 50% of the people in any given race I've been in aren't really racing...they're having fun and calling themselves racers..

 

[coskigirl]

I read it and don't see a request for input on her pedals. I see someone who is pleased with the speed in the uphill and also an emphasis on being a strong climber.

I know you're a strong cyclist, and I know you're right about efficiency but forcing your side of the pedal debate on someone who clearly enjoys riding flats is like telling a cat lover that they need to own a dog instead of a cat.
Its disrespectful of a person's right to make a choice which surprises me because it goes against your belief regarding personal choice.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Philpug]

Just a personal observation..I'd say 50% of the people in any given race I've been in aren't really racing...they're having fun and calling themselves racers..

50% of the racers are in the back half of the pack.

 

[Chris Walker]

50% of the racers are in the back half of the pack.

Speaking as someone who is usually in the back half of the pack no matter what kind of race it is, oh, yeah you better believe I'm really racing. To stay out of last place.

 

[Primoz]

I wouldnt love going DH on flats.......
If someone wants to donate 200 dollars top get some five tens and flats I can do a comparo...........

It has been done already, and it's still done pretty much every single UCI DH mtb World cup, so no need to try riding flats to prove your point As soon as you need to make more then 3 full spins of pedals on DH track, most of top DH riders are on clipless.... sure not xc style clipless but still clipless. I guess they want to feel insecure and slow

 

[Primoz]

Just a personal observation..I'd say 50% of the people in any given race I've been in aren't really racing...they're having fun and calling themselves racers..

It could be true, but for me, as soon as you put start bib on, you are racing. Regardless if you win or not, you are trying to do your best and be as fast as possible. I'm sure some people are ready to pay starting fee, jam between all those people on start, swear for not being able to to ride their own pace and have issues with too many people around them on trail, just to go easy and slow, but I would say majority of people race.... even if they are in last 20% of competitors.

 

[AmyPJ]

So to clarify, two of the switchbacks I struggled with because they were right turns, which is my weak direction. Yes, they are pancake flour dirt, yes they have rocks sprinkled throughout, but I cleared all but two, one of them being the first one. We'll see how it goes tomorrow. It will probably depend on if someone is on my tail and gets into my head, or if someone in front of me spins out or hops off. This section is 7+ miles into the ride, so hopefully we'll be spread out by then. If I only cared about winning, I would have entered the 6 mile race. This 13+ mile course is MUCH harder after mile 6 and the point is to challenge myself. The ride alone will kick my butt. I'm also most likely going to be one of the oldest entrants. I'm winning by just throwing my hat into the ring!

I've taken several clinics. EVERY instructor was riding flats and pushed us to ride flats. One of them REQUIRED that we ride flats. Some of them race and said that they would switch pedals depending on the race. Flats require you to be heavy on the pedals (good thing.) Flats make you learn to bunny hop and jump properly, and not rely on your pedals. Flats allow you to place your feet at different places on the pedals which can be very helpful in different situations.

Josh, there are known advantages/disadvantages to riding both types of pedals. Don't knock 'em until you try them! Trust me, my better half, who has been a road biker a lot longer than MTB, tried to convince me to switch and finally gave up.

 

[Tom K.]

Probably so, especially for cross country riding. But I still won't switch back. I crashed regularly when clipped in, which killed my confidence to even ATTEMPT a lot of stuff, so I stick with flats and manage to have fun anyway.

Did you ever try the SPD multi-release cleats? They transformed clipless for my wife.

Just a personal observation..I'd say 50% of the people in any given race I've been in aren't really racing...they're having fun and calling themselves racers..

True. There are "competers" and "completers". Nothing wrong with either approach. In fact, as a past competer, I'd have to admit that the other half might be having more fun.

Apologies for the made up word, buy rhyming is everything. Don't send me to the grammar thread!!!

 

[coskigirl]

Did you ever try the SPD multi-release cleats? They transformed clipless for my wife.

I can't speak for Amy but the SPD multi-release are what I used on the mountain bike. Still clipped. Still too timid on technical terrain.

 

[Monique]

Speaking as someone who is usually in the back half of the pack no matter what kind of race it is, oh, yeah you better believe I'm really racing. To stay out of last place.

DFL > DNF > DNS. In my case, DFL is my best possible case - which is fine!

Did you ever try the SPD multi-release cleats? They transformed clipless for my wife.

That's all I used. They made it better, but simply not as confidence building as flats.

But really, it's the shoes for flats that seal the deal. You can walk on hardwood floors without clicking or worrying about damaging them. They are comfortable, like shoes should be. When I have to stop suddenly and put my foot out on a rock for stability, my foot stays put - it doesn't slide off. When I have to walk my bike, it's infinitely better.

 

[Tony S]

That's all I used. They made it better, but simply not as confidence building as flats.

But really, it's the shoes for flats that seal the deal. You can walk on hardwood floors without clicking or worrying about damaging them. They are comfortable, like shoes should be. When I have to stop suddenly and put my foot out on a rock for stability, my foot stays put - it doesn't slide off. When I have to walk my bike, it's infinitely better.

All about priorities, definitions, and personalities. From Monique's perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like a shoe. From my perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like part of the bike's drive train. Both valid, both understandable.

 

[coskigirl]

All about priorities, definitions, and personalities. From Monique's perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like a shoe. From my perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like part of the bike's drive train. Both valid, both understandable.

That's the thing, there's no reason to try to change someone else's desire to use a different style pedal unless they are asking to see related improvements. The pros and cons for each style each valid, it's up to the individual to decide which are more important to them.

 

[scott43]

I mean you can try them. If you don't like them go back. There's no right answer.

 

[Josh Matta]

I've taken several clinics. EVERY instructor was riding flats and pushed us to ride flats. One of them REQUIRED that we ride flats. Some of them race and said that they would switch pedals depending on the race. Flats require you to be heavy on the pedals (good thing.) Flats make you learn to bunny hop and jump properly, and not rely on your pedals. Flats allow you to place your feet at different places on the pedals which can be very helpful in different situations.

I ve taken several ski clinics. EVERY ski instructor was skiing slalom skis and pushed us to ski slalmon skis as well. One of the ski clinic required that we ski on SL skis. Some of them races on their SL ski but would every once in while grab some 80mm skis for when it snow over 3 feet. SL ski make you learn how to edge absorb terrain effectively and not rely on the float of a wider ski. SL skis allow you to get more ski performance on the hard snow than other ski out there.

 

[Josh Matta]

Josh, there are known advantages/disadvantages to riding both types of pedals. Don't knock 'em until you try them! Trust me, my better half, who has been a road biker a lot longer than MTB, tried to convince me to switch and finally gave up.

what are the advantages?

 

[Monique]

All about priorities, definitions, and personalities. From Monique's perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like a shoe. From my perspective, the first duty of a bike shoe is to act like part of the bike's drive train. Both valid, both understandable.

Thanks! This is similar to what I was thinking, but couldn't articulate. I do not think that the connection of shoe to pedal is as core to the endeavor of biking - as the connection of boot to ski is to the endeavor of skiing.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Josh, you ride a single speed sometimes, right? No one ever has or will ever win any competitive race against geared competition of equal skill and fitness, so why would you ever go out and ride when you know you will be unhappy on a bike that is inferior. I mean, there is no joy in that situation, right? You must feel miserable. Now I'm sad for you, thank a lot.

 

[scott43]

Sassy's sad!!

(sorry Mike..just dredged up Flintstones memories!!! )

 

[Josh Matta]

That's all I used. They made it better, but simply not as confidence building as flats.

I agree for those that dont spend couple hours in a flat grass field learning to unclip and clip back in, flats are way easier to get off the bike on. what makes thing hoenstly easier is having a dropper.

But really, it's the shoes for flats that seal the deal. You can walk on hardwood floors without clicking or worrying about damaging them.

ummmm the sounds is annoying enough to loose performance? I mean my riding shoes are like ski boots they are only on my feet while riding.

They are comfortable, like shoes should be.

you got me, I honestly wish my shoes fit better, and one know a good carbon soles SPD shoe with a grippy outsole that is 110mm wide in a 25.5?

When I have to stop suddenly and put my foot out on a rock for stability, my foot stays put - it doesn't slide off. When I have to walk my bike, it's infinitely better.

My Mavic Furys have a vibrim outsole......they will stick to basically anything. People who have rode Sidi and various other shoes with out actually looking the sole materiel sure those are awful and slide all over the place. Wallking.....well maybe you would not be doing so much walking if you could stay on the bike on ride over stuff.

a couple facts

Clipless does not produce any more power or make you more efficient than flats, what it does do is soften the rider torque to the rear wheel while pedaling, and also rider quickness with back pedal and ratcheting moves. These are thing that I have to do every ride to clear certain on basically all my local trails. Basically you have much larger range of usable power to rear wheel on stuff where it is required. If your noticing a trend the vast majority of pro clipless people either A. Race XC or B. ride in the east.

You can also "cheat" and use the pedal to lift the rear of the bike from. I always laugh at that word cheating. I can easily bunny hop on flats on a BMX or DJ bike, but I would struggle to clear a 20 inch log at crawling pace on either. On a MTB clipped in I can J hop it by getting my front tire on the log and then jumping from the rear and pulling up on my pedals, the same sort of move can be used to clear uphill rock ledges as well.

This is an uphill log move on my local trails. You pretty much have no speed going into even if your a strong climber. The only real way of 'clearing" it is by lunging the front wheel up and than pulling up the one the rear end like a giant Pump track bump. I have yet to see a single person on flats clear it. Yes I am sure some trials rider like Macskill could do it in his sleep, but I am not a trials rider nor will I ever be, I just want to be able to ride trail and I personally love taking flat pedal riders on stuff I know they will never clear.