Flat Light - Technique/Optics to mitigate it

[Jerez]

Ouch!
Ski by feel. yes indeed works in flat light. I actually ski big bumps better in flat light when I can't see them and have to feel my way through.

When it's foggy and you get vertigo, it is really frightening. Especially that feeling that you're stopped and then realize you're not!

I fell over after stopping skiing an amazing powder run (opening chairs) on a sunny day, never mind in the fog!

 

[crgildart]

When it's foggy and you get vertigo, it is really frightening. Especially that feeling that you're stopped and then realize you're not!

It just occurred to me that this is very much like walking along the beach at water's edge and looking down at the water swirling around your feet. It gives a crazy illusion and feeling that you are moving when standing still or standing still when moving. When in a dense fog, the tiny particles of clouds swirling around you which are also the same color as the snow you are standing or moving on might be causing that as well.

 

[fatbob]

I use a hi yellow pretty much all the time now ( contacts provide a further filter for eye protection). My buddy whise eyes have deteriorTed sooner than mine swears by his hi pink prizm.

 

[surfacehoar]

There's an app for that..

Yes, those are the scrapers I was referring to. Totally inferior to the palm technique.
I see tourist lost in the big white fog all the time, sometimes it's sad, some times it's hilarious.

 

[crgildart]

Yes, those are the scrapers I was referring to. Totally inferior to the palm technique.
I see tourist lost in the big white fog all the time, sometimes it's sad, some times it's hilarious.

Odd, they work very well under whiteout snow guns blasting conditions. Conditions when taking your glove or mitten off, even for 30 seconds, will result in a soaking wet hand going back in to the glove and a soaking wet glove within half an hour of rinse and repeat. My only problem with them is I rarely remember to get it out of the boot bag when scrambling to get the gear from the car to the base lodge. When I have it I've been 100% happy with the results.. Some folks leave one clipped to the glove all the time on a zip tie or string. I might end up taking that example and have designated/dedicated snow guns blasting pair of gloves in with the others all the time in the bag.

 

[surfacehoar]

We don't really use snow making here so I wouldn't know anything about that. Yes, your hand will get some water on it with this method. However, when we're in a freezing fog, the wind is always strong, the wetness is gone in seconds. I've never had a wet glove while freezing fog is a chronic issue at my typical resort.

 

[jack97]

..... what do you experienced folk do for technique and gear to mitigate flat light?

As some have mentioned you learn to feel the snow. If you can do that, flat light on small hill groomers should not be a problem. Otherwise, practice with good light but keep your head up and and only look ten to twenty feet ahead, never look down at your boots. You have to separate vision and the feel of the snow.

Same applies for flat light in the bumps, except there are more contours to feel.

 

[Uncle Louie]

As some have mentioned you learn to feel the snow. If you can do that, flat light on small hill groomers should not be a problem. Otherwise, practice with good light but keep your head up and and only look ten to twenty feet ahead, never look down at your boots. You have to separate vision and the feel of the snow.

This is something I agree with fully and put into practice for years. Until now..........and now I discovered even feeling the snow isn't enough (and it turned out to be a big problem)

Monday in flat light / low light / cloud conditions I moved left on the trail I was skiing to get near trees for some depth perception till I reached poles marking a change in elevation on the trail (a cat track - road) I came to a complete stop and looked down and perceived about a foot to foot and a half drop to the road. Looking to my right I saw my group (maybe 25 feet away) and it appeared the drop there was about what I thought I saw in front of me. I pushed off and the next thing I knew I hit face first and heard the crunching in my neck. I may have moved forward 3 feet or so.

I had no idea I was in trouble until I hit. It turns out the drop was closer to 3 1/2 feet and I had no idea. I'm told my tips hit first and I double ejected and crashed. What I saw at a complete stop was totally different than the reality of what was there and it was right in front of me. The lens was fairly bright yellow.

I still don't quite know what to make of this. I am glad the OP posted this thread. Next season when I'm back on the hill (I hope) I'm going to do some pretty serious research on this and try to figure out just how different colors and type of lenses can be.

I suspect the OP in his first post was referring to me when he mentioned wishes for a speedy recovery. Thank you! Things look very good right now with only 2 vertebrae in my neck broken with no displacement or spinal cord damage. There appear to be no other symptoms other than neck pain at this point. There is no question I dodged a bullet big time.

 

[Eleeski]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Feeling the snow? You should have listened to your mother - you are going blind!

Eric

 

[David]

My eyes have never been good in flat light but they have gotten worse in the last few years where my yellow/amber lenses just didn't cut it anymore. Because i had a relatively new pair of Giro goggles tgat i really like i looked at what they had.

Their new Vivid lenses are based on their findings that snow is not white but blue. Lenses tgat block blue light really block snow so these allow the blue light in for enhanced vision of snow. Hype, advertising or not i don't know. But i can see better than with my other lenses so who knows. And i stick to narrower tree lined runs.

 

[Sibhusky]

My daughter used to have blue lenses for racing that she said really worked well. Maybe I'll have to find some. Except my goggle has been discontinued.

 

[jzmtl]

I tried a friend's pink (purple?) prizm and it highlights shadow better than my blue sensor lens even though it was darker overall. There was still some shadow on back of bumps though so not completely flat light situation.

 

[Reisen]

Lots of thread creep here. Flat light has turned into other low / no visibility situations (dense fog, etc). I view them very differently:

1. Flat light sucks, but all skiers have to deal with it, often frequently. It can be mitigated. Lots of suggestions here, but I agree that every dedicated skier should have some kind of a hi yellow or hi pink goggle or glasses. Every trip we go on I take it with me, and I ski it probably 30% of the time.

2. A couple of people have joked that skiing trees is cheating, but 99% of the skiers here will have that option. Even in most European resorts you will have options below the tree line. If the light is bad enough, I will always confine my skiing to areas of the mountain where I can easily ski along the tree line, or if snow conditions are decent, I'll just ski trees all day. It is the single biggest thing you can do.

3. Outside flat light, most skiers have skied in heavy fog or white-out conditions. I've done it plenty, but try not to, and will do everything I can to avoid it. I've just seen too many bad injuries, including some of the stuff mentioned earlier in this thread. Personally, I've seen a fib-fib fracture, and a bad concussion, both of which required sleds and had long-lasting impacts to the skiers. Not worth it. I don't need bluebird / bright sun, but I'm too risk averse to do much more than groomers in 1-pole fog.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Follow up to the no-solution-for-old-eyes situation, the idea of compensating with other inputs e.g. "feel" assumes that these input channels haven't aged along with the eyes - obviously a dangerous assumption. Reflexes, sense of balance, strength, flexibility, etc. all fade into the mists of history along with the soul windows. Keep fighting as long as you can, but don't be afraid to dial it back.

 

[Bolder]

I think it's an age thing. My 11 year old son is not fazed by flat light, but as I get older I like it less and less. My solution is to not fight it and ski in the trees when the light is flat. I've tried various goggle lenses, yellow seems to work best, but nothing is really great. Worst case I will just slow way down and work on my wedeln or something.

 

[Sibhusky]

You asked for it, you got it. First picture is this AM, looking down the Ant Hill. Under extreme digital enhancement, you can actually see two skiers, but since I couldn't see them, you don't get to either. I considered downloading, but decided there was enough visibility to get down.

Then, about 400 feet down (?), where you could actually start to see things. This is looking up Russ's Street. What a day.

And now you know why I consider "flat light" to be a blessing.

 

[Jeff N]

I tend to ski reasonably ok in flat light. Probably skiing slower, but having fun. I remember maybe 8 years ago skiing Loveland in a storm cyle near whiteout, and loving skiing chair 4 and the ridge because nobody was up there.

If I find I am having trouble, I dive in the trees. It is amazing how much better your eyes work with some contrast.

 

[Crudmaster]

Their new Vivid lenses are based on their findings that snow is not white but blue.

It's not their findings. This has been known by goggle and glasses makers for a long time.


No one seems to have mentioned the optical principle underlying the reason that warm-colored lenses are superior for showing contrast in snow. Here it is:

On all surfaces, the crevices and low areas are slightly darker than the peaks and top surfaces. When these darker areas are much darker, the surface shape is very easy to see. When these darker areas are only slightly darker, as in fog or flat light, the surface shape is harder to see.

And it happens that in snow, these darker areas are also slightly blue. Think of how a crevasse looks. They're pretty blue. In regular snow every fold, drepression, or ski track is like a tiny crevasse. They're slightly bluer and darker than the surrounding snow. And the blue color is even apparent in my icon photo.

Warm colored lenses reduce the amount of transmitted blue light, making blue things slightly darker than things of other colors. And so the blue crevices appear darker than when seen with clear lenses.

So warm lenses increase the apparent contrast of snow. And yellow, amber and rose lenses are of similar effectiveness.

The light from ordinary, non-glossy snow isn't polarized, so polariod lenses don't make a difference. And nor does the distance from face to lens.

My daughter used to have blue lenses for racing that she said really worked well.

On TV I once saw racers in a downhill wearing blue lenses. It was a sunny day and the course had sunny sections interspersed with shadowed sections.

My theory: It's not because snow itself is slightly blue, but the shadowed areas, being darker and lit by light from the blue sky, will appear less dark, relative to the full sun areas, than they would with clear lenses. So blue-lensed racers, going from bright areas into dark areas, then back again, will percieve a smaller change between light and dark areas. The blue lenses willl help them see as they enter a darker, bluer corridor.

 

[David]

I was just just repeating what the Giro website said.

 

[BGreen]

I just got Uvex’s radar lens. It definitely does not help.