First time snowcat?

[James]

Wanting to ski powder would be great if one could be reasonably sure to find some periodically, but otherwise you’re learning a skill set (or adaptations of a skill set) that you won’t get to use.

Why go on vacation anywhere you’ll never go back to?
Like questioning why someone wants to see the pyramids or the Grand Canyon.

It’s powder.

 

[David]

Why go on vacation anywhere you’ll never go back to?
Like questioning why someone wants to see the pyramids or the Grand Canyon.

It’s powder.

Who says you'd never go back? How else do you find your new favorite place to ski?

 

[David]

I'm not good in chopped up deep snow either and thought it would help to get some instruction in fresh snow hoping it would help with both. 25 years ago when I'd ski resort powder we had really skinny skis so I was still on firm snow beneath.

I also have family & friends in the Rockies that love to take a day off to ski with me when I visit and they want to take me to the good stuff. I want to be able to feel more confident and enjoy it without making them wait or ski like a Jerry beyond his depth.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Steamboat Powdercats. One of the Cats is "Level 1" Beginner and the terrain is fun and mellow. The snow is consistently cold and powdery. The area they use gets a ton of snow, much more than the resort proper. It is perfect for polishing your powder skiing.

This...great operation and you are skiing within minutes. Not the gnarliest terrain but fun and Buff Pass gets pounded with snow. $$$ though

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Powder Mtn UT, Loveland CO and Copper Mtn CO are three places that quickly come to mind that have free or a la carte cat skiing, making it easy to get a sampling without committing to a full/expensive week.

Not anymore...they built a lift to that terrain. They are going to expand the terrain and reinstate the cat in new terrain but not this year.

 

[Tony]

What is this Gathering?

See https://www.pugski.com/forums/gatherings-and-on-the-hill-meetups.17/

This year's Gathering is at Jackson Hole the last week of February which means it there is not new snow a lot of the mountain can turn to Spring conditions due to elevation and exposure. But there will be enough local knowledge that even without new snow there should be someone there to guide you to good snow.

My Gathering history:
2012 - Late Feb when Phil and Tricia got married on a powder Leap day. After a long drought CA got dumped on beginning with the first day at Mt Rose
2013 - I think it was Big Sky and I didn't go
2014 - UT, the first week of Feb and I did not stay the whole week, but my notes show I skied new snow 3 of my 4 days. 2nd Gathering at Mammoth and Tahoe late March with storm the last day at Mammoth and first day at Tahoe.
2015 - Jackson Hole. See my post on preceding page in this thread
2016 - Aspen first week of Feb with some new snow, but don't think it was that much
2017 - Whistler in early March with new snow every day I was there down to Village
2018 - UT early March started with two powder days at Snowbasin, then
2019 - Big Sky with new snow every day I was there

The additional comment to my preceding post recommending Altabird, Targhee and Lost Trail is that Altabird gets very busy, especially on powder weekends in middle of season. Weekdays are better with Tues/Wed probably best. Late season (April, early May) can be great with lower crowds although I'm usually not there. Brighton can be a good place to avoid worst of crowds and at any of the UT places having someone with local knowledge can make a big difference in quality of snow.

 

[KingGrump]

What is this Gathering?

 

[dbostedo]

2016 - Aspen first week of Feb with some new snow, but don't think it was that much

They got almost 40" 2 days before the Gathering... those that were there early had good powder days. The first couple of Gathering days had good conditions and things firmed up the rest of the week.

 

[David]

See https://www.pugski.com/forums/gatherings-and-on-the-hill-meetups.17/

This year's Gathering is at Jackson Hole the last week of February which means it there is not new snow a lot of the mountain can turn to Spring conditions due to elevation and exposure. But there will be enough local knowledge that even without new snow there should be someone there to guide you to good snow.

My Gathering history:
2012 - Late Feb when Phil and Tricia got married on a powder Leap day. After a long drought CA got dumped on beginning with the first day at Mt Rose
2013 - I think it was Big Sky and I didn't go
2014 - UT, the first week of Feb and I did not stay the whole week, but my notes show I skied new snow 3 of my 4 days. 2nd Gathering at Mammoth and Tahoe late March with storm the last day at Mammoth and first day at Tahoe.
2015 - Jackson Hole. See my post on preceding page in this thread
2016 - Aspen first week of Feb with some new snow, but don't think it was that much
2017 - Whistler in early March with new snow every day I was there down to Village
2018 - UT early March started with two powder days at Snowbasin, then
2019 - Big Sky with new snow every day I was there

The additional comment to my preceding post recommending Altabird, Targhee and Lost Trail is that Altabird gets very busy, especially on powder weekends in middle of season. Weekdays are better with Tues/Wed probably best. Late season (April, early May) can be great with lower crowds although I'm usually not there. Brighton can be a good place to avoid worst of crowds and at any of the UT places having someone with local knowledge can make a big difference in quality of snow.

Really cool ! I've seen those postings but I thought it was a page for a few folks to meet up when skiing. I didn't know they were planned trips. I may be in JH this year but not 100% sure yet. The dates could line up with my Feb trip though.

 

[Mike King]

I'll just say for the record that skiing backcountry powder is different than skiing even pretty deep powder at a resort. Uncompacted snow just skis different. And even at the most lightly visited resort, the amount of time that untracked lines will exist is pretty short.

That's why something like Aspen makes sense. The cat goes out on Richmond Ridge behind the ski area. They only go when there's untracked and good snow to ski. You have a great ski school that can tune up your off-piste skiing before going. And while it is really expensive, you might be able to organize a group of folk to hire an instructor to come along on the cat and minimize the expense.

My first backcountry skiing experience was the Aspen cat with my current coach, who is a (6? I've lost count) time Powder 8 champion. He helped me immensely.

Mike

 

[Nathanvg]

To the OP, you don't have to go cat skiing to become a better skier. You probably learn quicker skiing at a ski area. Push yourself and be patient.

Timing is everything. Location is everything. Ok, so they're both everything.

I've taken ski trips at least once every year since I was 4. I've had exactly three opportunities for powder, I had to pay for a cat trip to get one of those.

Just to echo everyone else: the odds of trip timing lining up with a powder dump are unlikely, and the amount of powder you get on a "powder day" at a resort is a couple hours at absolute best. By the end of the day, even the trees are getting tracked out.

I'm a well-documented cheapskate, and an irredeemable mogul fanatic (which is to say I really don't care about powder at all); but I don't regret spending $350 on a cat day in the slightest. Worth every penny.

I hope you've only been skiing for a couple years because if you've been skiing longer, you're either really unlucky or have a very high standard for a "powder day."

Bestsnow.net has some great stats on powder day odds with most ski areas being somewhere between 10-20% odds for a 6 inch plus powder day.

Statistically you would expect about one powder day a week. That said, if you expect a powder day every week trip, you'll be disappointed. Other trips you might get 3 powder days in a row.

Those stats are solely based on snow fall. Last year I skied 60" of virgin powder at Tahoe that wouldn't show up in the stats above. It snowed earlier in the week but was closed due to avy danger until the day I skied. I think that's the deepest I've ever skied.

I usually ski about 15 days a year. I don't keep track of powder days but they happen a lot. I mostly remember the really big ones, like 30" at copper two years ago or 18" at fernie three years ago. I even recall some long shot powder days like 30" at Boyne, MI and 36" at Killington.

I know it was said earlier but crowding matters a lot. Type of skier matters a lot too. I love Altabird but most skiers there ski powder and love it. That's not ideal. I recall skiing Pow Mow days after a storm and getting 12"+ virgin tracks. I had a Wednesday at AZ Snowbowl with a foot of new and only a few dozen people skiing. Canada has lots of low crowd areas, pretty much everything but Whistler is low crowds.

 

[Seldomski]

@David Why exactly do you want to go cat skiing? What are your expectations?

1. Are you going for the remote, back country-ish atmosphere without the uphill and avalanche training?
2. Just to cross it off the list of 'ski experiences' ?
3. For an epic powder day?
4. To learn to ski powder?
5. As a cheaper version of heli-skiing?

Depending on the 'why' there may be more cost effective ways to achieve what you are after.

 

[David]

To the OP, you don't have to go cat skiing to become a better skier. You probably learn quicker skiing at a ski area. Push yourself and be patient.

In the 80's & early 90's we'd usually get 2-3 deep powder days (thigh to armpit deep) per trip. We had fun but were lucky to string together a dozen turns before crashing. In late 90's I trashed a knee and all my ski buddy's got married. I missed aboutc15 years before I had enough of sitting around getting fat and ski mostly by myself these days. A few friends will join me for a day or so here in MI. As bad as I was in powder back then I'm worse now. When I visit my family & friends in the Rockies they want to hike to a bowl or ski the pass or show me thier stashes. I'm tired of making excuses and making them ski groomers with me. This year I'm seeking as much deep snow as I can find whether or not I spend the whole day on my face. Enough us enough and no more excuses! Fresh or chopped I'm skiing it! As for cat skiing, I've always wanted to do it.

I hope you've only been skiing for a couple years because if you've been skiing longer, you're either really unlucky or have a very high standard for a "powder day."

Bestsnow.net has some great stats on powder day odds with most ski areas being somewhere between 10-20% odds for a 6 inch plus powder day.

Statistically you would expect about one powder day a week. That said, if you expect a powder day every week trip, you'll be disappointed. Other trips you might get 3 powder days in a row.

Those stats are solely based on snow fall. Last year I skied 60" of virgin powder at Tahoe that wouldn't show up in the stats above. It snowed earlier in the week but was closed due to avy danger until the day I skied. I think that's the deepest I've ever skied.

I usually ski about 15 days a year. I don't keep track of powder days but they happen a lot. I mostly remember the really big ones, like 30" at copper two years ago or 18" at fernie three years ago. I even recall some long shot powder days like 30" at Boyne, MI and 36" at Killington.

I know it was said earlier but crowding matters a lot. Type of skier matters a lot too. I love Altabird but most skiers there ski powder and love it. That's not ideal. I recall skiing Pow Mow days after a storm and getting 12"+ virgin tracks. I had a Wednesday at AZ Snowbowl with a foot of new and only a few dozen people skiing. Canada has lots of low crowd areas, pretty much everything but Whistler is low crowds.

 

[Seldomski]

Statistically you would expect about one powder day a week. That said, if you expect a powder day every week trip, you'll be disappointed. Other trips you might get 3 powder days in a row.

Yes, I think this is probably the best way to get some powder at a resort as a destination skier. Do trips that are more than 3 days long. Plan on a trip that is one week in one location. The odds are good that you will get one day with some powder, and if you are already there, you can get on the lift close to first chair and get some tracks. If that trip is in a remote location, the crowds will be smaller. Bonus points when the storm is so intense they close the roads to the area. You may get it all to yourself!

 

[David]

@David Why exactly do you want to go cat skiing? What are your expectations?

1. Are you going for the remote, back country-ish atmosphere without the uphill and avalanche training?
2. Just to cross it off the list of 'ski experiences' ?
3. For an epic powder day?
4. To learn to ski powder?
5. As a cheaper version of heli-skiing?

Depending on the 'why' there may be more cost effective ways to achieve what you are after.

In the 80's & early 90's we'd get 2-3 deep (thigh to chest deep) days per trip. We'd ski it all day but were lucky to get a dozen turns before crashing. Then in the late 90's I trashed a knee and my ski buddy's got married (and haven't skied since) and I missed about 15 years. I finally got sick of sitting around getting fat so now I'm skiing alone in MI except for the occasional day a friend or 2 will join me. As bad as I was in deep snow I'm worse now. I'm also not as physically strong as I was and can't just muscle through it anymore. When I go west my family and friends want to take me up the bowl, the pass or show me their stashes. I'm tired of excuses and making them ski groomers. I've also turned down some cat days because I didn't want to be that guy that slows everyone else down. 3-4" is fine but when it gets deeper I'm on my face.
This year I'm seeking out as much deep & chopped snow as I can find. Time to get it done so I can keep up! I know it'll take more than a trip or 2 to be really confident in it but I have to start!

 

[Mike King]

Yes, I think this is probably the best way to get some powder at a resort as a destination skier. Do trips that are more than 3 days long. Plan on a trip that is one week in one location. The odds are good that you will get one day with some powder, and if you are already there, you can get on the lift close to first chair and get some tracks. If that trip is in a remote location, the crowds will be smaller. Bonus points when the storm is so intense they close the roads to the area. You may get it all to yourself!

Good luck with that. I ski about 100 days a year. My experience is much different than @Nathanvg's, or perhaps my metric of a powder day is much different. I don't really consider in-resort skiing powder skiing unless there's more than 18 inches of untracked snow. I can probably count under 30 days of those conditions in the past 8 years that I've been skiing 100+ days a season.

If you want the possibility of a big dump during a specific scheduled trip, then make sure you are going somewhere where there is a better likelihood of such an event. Utah, Targhee and the Powder Highway come to mind. And make sure you are not going to a resort where it will be tracked out in 15 minutes, like it is at Alta and Snowbird. Snowbasin and PowMow are better choices, as are places like Fernie.

 

[Seldomski]

my metric of a powder day is much different

This is probably it. My standards are pretty low. If there is 6" or more, it's a powder day to me. That means some spots will have 18" due to wind and/or aspect of the slope.

In a week long trip, I get day like that a little over half the time (i.e. one morning is a 'powder day').

 

[Jerez]

^^You guys have some serious bad luck! I have had plenty of in-resort powder days nearly every season (12"+ is my metric). It is, however, easier if you are near a resort and pick up and go when the snow flies. ​

Repeat alert.... Since you are driving, wait until you can get a reasonable snow forecast. OpenSnow.com has a "powder chaser" feature you can watch for advice.

Good advice on picking uncrowded resorts. You can get deep powder for days after a storm at a place like Wolf Creek (and they have lots of very mellow off-piste terrain), which is less crowded and often gets more low-level skiers who avoid the powder. Whereas in Alta/Bird you may get more snow, but it is ruined in a feeding frenzy by the second run.

That's also one plus for cat skiing. Maybe it won't be absolutely fresh, but you likely won't be skiing teeth rattling ruts either.

Unless it's really heavy and wet, once you get it, skiing powder is the easiest skiing there is. Keep up the pursuit, David; you will have a blast.

 

[Ogg]

Unless it's really heavy and wet, once you get it, skiing powder is the easiest skiing there is. Keep up the pursuit, David; you will have a blast.

This.^ I can't believe how much better my body felt after a week in UT vs. a weekend in VT last season.

 

[James]

Unless it's really heavy and wet, once you get it, skiing powder is the easiest skiing there is. Keep up the pursuit, David; you will have a blast.

Totally agree. Till it gets pretty cut up.