"feel" once more

[tch]

Why oh Why oh Why.... Once more, I am bemoaning the lack of discussion of "feel" in ski reviews. Got the new SKI magazine -- and of course the reviews are SH*T. I guess I have to expect that (tangent: what the hell kind of info is conveyed by "I could be happy skiing these all day"???).

But even RealSkiers and others don't talk enough about "feel", as far as I'm concerned. For me, this is the absolute PRIME determiner in what ski I might buy. As an old dude with bad knees, I need damp, solid skis that quell vibration. If I look at at any width, there are probably 5-9 skis that might perform about the same, but reviewers get stuck writing about nuances of waist width, turn shape, etc. and never really discuss how damp skis are vs how light/likely to vibrate they are. For a guy who has limited ability to demo, I need help from reviewers, and I'm not really getting it. "Playful" doesn't really address the issue b/c I think of this description as covering how skiddy, slarvable skis are. To me, "poppy" says how much rebound they have. "Heavy" might cover it...but that word is now verboten in a world where Lighter-is-Better.

Can we have some discussion/categorization/rating about "feel" in our reviews?

 

[cantunamunch]

Have you demoed Renoun yet?

 

[silverback]

I agree with @tch. It is a missing portion of many reviews but the magazine's reviews have gotten hard to read any more. Kind of sad as I used to look forward to it's arrival. Kind of a "snow is comming" signal but also to get real info on the latest skis.

My 14 year old was skimming it and asked "is this magazine written by the Atomic company?" I asked why and he compared reveiews that sounded like a magazine writer/reviewer wrote it and Atomics that sound like they came from the brochure of the ski company.

"Nicknamed “The Green Hornet” for ’18-’19, the Redster X9 remains unchanged besides its new jade topsheet color. It still features seven-time World Cup Overall Champion Marcel Hirscher’s Servotec technology, it still has a bomb-proof Titanal-wood-Titanal construction, and it still has one purpose: To arc and destroy every inch of corduroy at your local ski hill."

Not only does it not sound like a review, Hirscher designed the rod on top?

Imagine if Mercedes reviews said "F1 champion Lewis Hamilton designed turbo system" or something similar!

 

[Philpug]

I am afraid to ask what you think about our review method , in my mind, we are doing what you are looking for. There are a few brands that do not like what we say because we DON'T regurgitate their marketing hyperbole but actually most brands DO appreciate the fresh perspective that we bring. To the feel question, I went back and looked at our reviews and I do think that we try to address feel with the "Who is it for..." and "Who is it not for..". Where I will reiterate another area where we differ is that you can ask one of our testers, "what did you mean by that?" or "You said that..., what I am interpreting is this... am I correct or would you have another suggestion?" This is something that you cannot to with any magazine and very few review sites, you might get the face of that site, but can you access the person that you are looking to get their opinion from?

 

[Pete in Idaho]

FEEL. Yep certainly agree tch and I will go a step further, Feel is pretty much gone in what you are saying and instruction, what is fun on skis and how does it feel. How do you feel about the steeps, ice, speed etc.. So many parts of skiing now do not have a feel factor and if you think about it isn't that about the most important part of skiing.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Because feel can't be turned into a number or put in an excel spreadsheet. It's inconvenient. Most don't or won't take the time anymore.

 

[cantunamunch]

Because feel can't be turned into a number or put in an excel spreadsheet. It's inconvenient. Most don't or won't take the time anymore.

You just have to know where to look.
http://www.eviski.com/Index.aspx?PageUrl=forum&Forum=Tab=Topic,TopicID=40,PostsList,Page=1

It seems to me that OP is looking for ^that level of flex data AND the vibrational data (EDIT) AND some sort of indication of edge engagement pressure / tipping quickness that composites sidecut and camber/rocker feel.

That hypothetical third quantity, to my knowledge, has never been done before.

 

[David Chaus]

Have you demoed Renoun yet?

Exactly what I was going to say. I wasn’t sold on Renoun until the day after I demoed the Z90 for a whole day. When I went back to my daily driver, which I still like, I noticed the difference by the middle of my ski day, how tired I was skiing my own skis under very similar conditions.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I'm selling my Head Kore 105-s because they feel like I'm skiing on a diving board cut in half with bindings.

 

[tch]

I am afraid to ask what you think about our review method , in my mind, we are doing what you are looking for. There are a few brands that do not like what we say because we DON'T regurgitate their marketing hyperbole but actually most brands DO appreciate the fresh perspective that we bring. To the feel question, I went back and looked at our reviews and I do think that we try to address feel with the "Who is it for..." and "Who is it not for..". Where I will reiterate another area where we differ is that you can ask one of our testers, "what did you mean by that?" or "You said that..., what I am interpreting is this... am I correct or would you have another suggestion?" This is something that you cannot to with any magazine and very few review sites, you might get the face of that site, but can you access the person that you are looking to get their opinion from?

I am not actually slagging the reviewers on Pugski; this website and its forbear are where I've gotten most of my really good info abt. gear. It is also true that the interactive Q&A is often more valuable than the original review. That said, I'm not sure the one-line "Who is it for" always touches on what I want. It may be a start...but one-liners are not usually aimed at my particular issue.

And thank you for pointing me towards Renoun -- I've been intrigued, but I've already decided my wallet isn't full enough to go there yet. Really, my concern is more general and for the future, not necessarily for a particular purchase right now.

 

[Tony S]

I'm selling my Head Kore 105-s because they feel like I'm skiing on a diving board cut in half with bindings.

Ouch.

 

[Tony S]

I am not actually slagging the reviewers on Pugski; this website and its forbear are where I've gotten most of my really good info abt. gear. It is also true that the interactive Q&A is often more valuable than the original review. That said, I'm not sure the one-line "Who is it for" always touches on what I want. It may be a start...but one-liners are not usually aimed at my particular issue.

And thank you for pointing me towards Renoun -- I've been intrigued, but I've already decided my wallet isn't full enough to go there yet. Really, my concern is more general and for the future, not necessarily for a particular purchase right now.

What's your bsl?

 

[Philpug]

What's your bsl?

Adult size.

 

[RuleMiHa]

You just have to know where to look.
http://www.eviski.com/Index.aspx?PageUrl=forum&Forum=Tab=Topic,TopicID=40,PostsList,Page=1

It seems to me that OP is looking for ^that level of flex data AND the vibrational data (EDIT) AND some sort of indication of edge engagement pressure / tipping quickness that composites sidecut and camber/rocker feel.

That hypothetical third quantity, to my knowledge, has never been done before.

Holy mother of snot that was a lot of work. He created a portable flex tester to carry around with him and then had to work and rework the data. I might have to contact him about a few of my backed up data analysis projects. Geez!

 

[cantunamunch]

Holy mother of snot that was a lot of work. He created a 100 pound portable flex tester to carry around with him and then had to work and rework the data. I might have to contact him about a few of my backed up data analysis projects. Geez!

I know. How awesome was that. I'd almost buy one of his skis just for the fun I had reading his reports.

 

[Andy Mink]

I think that "feel" can be incorporated into reviews but keep in mind it's a very subjective subject. What I feel is twitchy may be someone else's "feels like a scalpel". But it could be a starting point.

 

[David Chaus]

I think that "feel" can be incorporated into reviews but keep in mind it's a very subjective subject. What I feel is twitchy may be someone else's "feels like a scalpel". But it could be a starting point.

Now, “Twitchy Scalpel” would be a great ski name. Which brand would use it?

 

[cantunamunch]

I think that "feel" can be incorporated into reviews but keep in mind it's a very subjective subject. What I feel is twitchy may be someone else's "feels like a scalpel". But it could be a starting point.

That's the absolutely wonderful thing about the flex "feel" visualisations as published by Fri Flyt (I linked to it above). If the reader has any baseline ski on the list they can subjectively shift to any other other ski on the list - with 100% of the subjectivity being within the reader.

No reviewer-reviewer discrepancies. No subjective language. No vague, wishy washy verbiage that can be construed to mean anything under the sun.

But, as mentioned, it is an absolute snotload of work.

Now, “Twitchy Scalpel” would be a great ski name. Which brand would use it?

Salomon and Atomic take themselves a bit too seriously, I think. Head don't do 'twitchy'. Fischer like their alphabet soup too much. Dynastar, maybe. K2, if they built an SL version of the Supercharger, maybe. Stockli could do it, but I think they learned their risk lesson with the Y series.

I think Icelantic or Praxis would do it in a heartbeat if they felt there was a market for the ski. 55mm 14.5m city slalom?

 

[Philpug]

Now, “Twitchy Scalpel” would be a great ski name. Which brand would use it?

Women's version could be the Nervous Nellie.

 

[NZRob]

I voiced the same opinion a few days ago about magazine reviews in a different thread. Most of the mainstream ski magazines don't provide a review, they provide marketing blurb. Every ski is a great ski, every ski is the best. Look for a criticism of a ski in a magazine review...very hard to find.

Without wanting to sound like a pugski fanboy, the 'Who is it for, who is it not for' review approach with a brief summary is gold (I hate long-technical analysis of skis). Take a look at the selection of subjective impressions from Head Titan reviews on this site (being my most recent ski purchase, and also a bit like the OP I love a damper, solid ski and wanted versatility for local conditions):

pulls across the hill with power and enthusiasm
excels with maneuverability and composure
stable and precise
can be skied a size longer, and still feel nimble

For me that gives me all the info I need about a skis feel.