Fear: A Different Approach

[Tricia]

it's easier to move down the hill before you complete the turn.

⛷

I'm sure that's nice and succinct for memory purposes, but you're going to have to elaborate how you work that into a way to help with fear. Because those who are frozen in place are looking for a helicopter or tele transport to save them. They don't want to get down the hill, they want to get off the hill. I'm sure once you fully explain the fortune cookie, we'll get it.

Welcome Chris.
I'm wondering, like Sibhusky, how this tip approaches the fear side of the equation.

 

[Tricia]

Years ago, I was in a group lesson at Breck, probably a level 6. Full day class, and one participant was quite eager to do whatever it took to go ski the black diamonds with his buddies. After lunch, he was complaining about his lack of progress. Our instructor, within full earshot of the rest of us, told his ski instructor buddies that he was going to go TF this guy to teach him a lesson. I didn't know what that meant, but found out after the class.

No trust.

First of all, the instructor had no business doing this in any lesson, but for sure not in a group lesson.
On the other hand, there is a real likely hood that the grumbling student would have (and maybe did) spread the word that his lesson was lame and he didn't learn anything.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Terrain F*** - take someone on to terrain that's way over their ability to prove a point and scare them to death

I’ve had to resort to this with my daughter at the age of about 8 (with mom’s blessing) as dispite all warnings she’s was to remain on the green run (mom could see her) until I could take her on other runs. She convinced my son 11 at the time (with learning difficulties, memory issues and seizures) to do a blue run because she felt she could (he really wasn’t ready) and disappeared from sight leaving him to get down by himself and then proudly boasted that she was now ready for a black run, while putting him in serious risk. When this was explained she said he got down safe so it was ok.

So......She got her wish, steepest hardpack, icy run. Once she got half way into the run steepest iciest part, I said you are ready to go and skied off about 50ft and waited. Tears and fears!!! sobbing “I’m not ready”. My response was you said you were ready so why should I help you, just like she did for her brother. Waited couple more minutes and guided her down safely.

Lesson was more or less learned.

Before anyone blasts me, this was not a lesson to ski, but a lesson to listen to instructions as doing what you want puts others and yourself at risk. This was a hard decision (and wife agreed and she was the one that suggested it) as it goes against on how one teaches someone to ski. In this one instance the bigger picture needed to be addressed with the use of fear.

Personal, a good instructor will encourage and instill confidence with trust. The bigger the trust more outside the comfort zone you can get a fearful individual and have them come down safely with little to no fear.

There is no magic solution and scaring them (like I did to my daughter) is counter productive to progressing further. As it did with her for several years, however, it did cause her rethink some choices that would put her and someone else at risk (and that was the focus of that nasty lesson).

Sorry AmyPJ, to break your trust in me I do have a dark evil side.

 

[Tricia]

@oldschoolskier I had a similar situation happen with a friend who was clearly skiing blues and made me promise that I wouldn't take her down anything she couldn't handle. We got to the top of the lift, there were two different blue runs, one of which I knew was slightly difficult about half way down, while the other one (which was where I intended to take her) was cruise blue all the way to the bottom. She stopped me to say that she was scared to go the direction I was going and she wanted to go on the other blue run.
This was on a mountain that I knew like the back of my hand, so I assured her that the direction she wanted to go was going to get her in over her head after she got around the bend, but she was SURE that I was taking her somewhere worse, so I let her pick her run. "Okay, but when you get in over your head, remember that YOU picked it."
She freaked out a bit and I ended up talking her through every single turn to get her back to the base.
I wouldn't deliberately take her there, but sometimes you have to give in as part of the learning curve.

 

[oldschoolskier]

@oldschoolskier I had a similar situation happen with a friend who was clearly skiing blues and made me promise that I wouldn't take her down anything she couldn't handle. We got to the top of the lift, there were two different blue runs, one of which I knew was slightly difficult about half way down, while the other one (which was where I intended to take her) was cruise blue all the way to the bottom. She stopped me to say that she was scared to go the direction I was going and she wanted to go on the other blue run.
This was on a mountain that I knew like the back of my hand, so I assured her that the direction she wanted to go was going to get her in over her head after she got around the bend, but she was SURE that I was taking her somewhere worse, so I let her pick her run. "Okay, but when you get in over your head, remember that YOU picked it."
She freaked out a bit and I ended up talking her through every single turn to get her back to the base.
I wouldn't deliberately take her there, but sometimes you have to give in as part of the learning curve.

I don’t think any instructor could have done a better job in taking the tome to talk her through each turn. This extra effort displaces is what helps prevent fear from taking root that takes a long time to overcome.

Unfortunately what I did intentionally was to instill fear for safety, glad you're not as an evil person as I am.

 

[DaveM]

Here is a somewhat different approach on how to deal with a student/new skier that is fearful. ..
Trust...

On the Snow...

Above all, do not violate the trust you gave your student at first; don't take him or her to a steeper or faster area until it is proper to do so.

Summary
Recognize and talk to your student if fear is a problem. Your student can tell if you are sincere and convey that you care. Once you make the promise to protect and help your student, don't break it. Word travels fast in ski circles, and if you use this method and are successful, your requested privates may increase. Add trust to your approach to helping fearful students and watch how it works in the student/instructor relationship. It is very soul-satisfying to have a student give you a big hug and thank you for helping them become a skier.

Pete in Idaho, thank you for an excellent posting and approach. Other respondents certainly shared worthwhile perspectives, too. Good instructors incorporate those principles into their lessons. I'm fortunate because I've had some very good lessons over the years - primarily from certified instructors but also some good ones from certain friends. Overcoming fear is part of my improving. This past season, while skiing at Solitude with a good friend who's skied years longer than I have - and is definitely better - we came across a person who obviously scared and trying to ski down terrain above her ability. So, we tried to get her calm, focused on a few simple points, and helped her get down the trail. At one point, I asked her to think about "Pizza" [wedging] vs. "French Fries" [parallel skis], to help. She really appreciated it. She was really happy to be reunited with her young son, who was waiting for her at the bottom of the run. Yes, we received hugs & thanks. Helping someone else was one of the highlights of my ski season. I'm thinking about becoming a ski instructor when I retire, in fact. So Pete In Idaho, thank you again for a fine post. 'Best Wishes to You.

 

[hrstrat57]

I employed nearly everything you discuss in your post @PeteinIdaho during my long teaching career.

I am/was a visual learner tho so I never expressed it as eloquently as you have here.

Truly well done.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

It has been nice to see/read the posts on this thread. Thank you to those who liked the fear approach article. DaveM, yes helping others on the hill is also a pastime for myself. Always nice if you can really help someone down the hill. I have met some great people this way and have a ski partner now from just sharing our sport.