European vs American style skiing

[Rod9301]

Scenery, food, alps towns, different cultures, ski area size, other tourist options to go with the skiing, etc.

You're right of course. But this is traveling, not necessarily for skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

You're right of course. But this is traveling, not necessarily for skiing.

True, some of that is tangential to the skiing. But I would love to, say, go to the Dolomites and groomer-zoom for a week. But large portions of my skiing are spent on groomers no matter where I am usually. Which is probably true of the majority of skiers. So why not do it in Europe?

 

[Goose]

Why go skiing in Europe if all your going to ski is groomers?

With due respect, is that even a real question?
And besides, there are a whole world of skiers who just love to carve groomers anyway. Not at all does skiing have to be off piste and back country in order to be worthy of fun and even a trip to anywhere. Skiing doesnt have to be about back country, trees, chutes, anything off piste, or even bumps, and probably for most people it isnt. But its still very worthy skiing and ski vacationing. And also even for those of lessor abilities too.

 

[jmeb]

Scenery, food, alps towns, different cultures, ski area size, other tourist options to go with the skiing, etc.

après. You forgot après.

 

[SBrown]

With due respect, is that even a real question?
And besides, there are a whole world of skiers who just love to carve groomers anyway. Not at all does skiing have to be off piste and back country in order to be worthy of fun and even a trip to anywhere. Skiing doesnt have to be about back country, trees, chutes, anything off piste, or even bumps, and probably for most people it isnt. But its still very worthy skiing and ski vacationing. And also even for those of lessor abilities too.

I agree with that -- I am just addressing the assertion that European skiing is best done on the groomers and that we don't need guides because we have "plenty of the same" (off piste) in North America. That just isn't the case.

 

[jmeb]

I agree with that -- I am just addressing the assertion that European skiing is best done on the groomers and that we don't need guides because we have "plenty of the same" (off piste) in North America. That just isn't the case.

100%.

I just got back from my first ski trip to Euroland. I skied a handful of days with a bunch of first-Euro ski trip folks from the TGR forums. You know, the sorts of people who ski all the off piste and backcountry they can in the US and Canada. Folks who have the skill and backcountry travel expertise to ski a bunch without guides.

Every one of us was absolutely floored. The scale of available terrain off lifts there is insane. Who cares about slightly lower snow quality when you have so much terrain, so much access, and a much stabler snowpack than CO/Utah/interior Canada/Wyoming.

And we weren't even at Cham or Verbier. Just lowly Andermatt / Sedrun / Disentis.

 

[SBrown]

100%.

I just got back from my first ski trip to Euroland. I skied a handful of days with a bunch of first-Euro ski trip folks from the TGR forums. You know, the sorts of people who ski all the off piste and backcountry they can in the US and Canada. Folks who have the skill and backcountry travel expertise to ski a bunch without guides.

Every one of us was absolutely floored. The scale of available terrain off lifts there is insane. ....

I was trying to show in photos, but you just can't.

 

[Jacob]

True, some of that is tangential to the skiing. But I would love to, say, go to the Dolomites and groomer-zoom for a week. But large portions of my skiing are spent on groomers no matter where I am usually. Which is probably true of the majority of skiers. So why not do it in Europe?

If that's the case, then the warnings about going off piste don't really apply to you. But, if you're the type of skier who likes to do a mixture of skiing on groomers and on ungroomed trails and you decide to go to Europe, then there's a chance that you might think it's perfectly safe to pop off the side of a groomer without any thought about terrain traps or avalanche risks. If that's the case, then it's worth paying attention to the warnings.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

après. You forgot après.

plus some wine, beer, cheese and chocolate....

 

[Jacob]

And we weren't even at Cham or Verbier. Just lowly Andermatt / Sedrun / Disentis.

To be fair, that area has some pretty epic off-piste terrain, even though it doesn't have a lot of lifts and marked pistes.

 

[Jacob]

I was trying to show in photos, but you just can't.

I find that videos work best.


(Not me. Just a random video of a route that I've skied before.)

Pause at about 0:13 to get a good view of the terrain.

 

[jmeb]

I was trying to show in photos, but you just can't.

Agreed.

Here's one shot to think about. The terrain in this shot except the upper most ridge is accessible via a single t-bar (also I supposed the Tram overhead...but that serves 3x the vert, and 30x the terrain). And no one gives a shit. Basically a T-bar with as much gnar as KT-22.

 

[SBrown]

... which comes back to the whole point that started this thread, sorta, you can't control all the off piste.

 

[Ivan]

Why go skiing in Europe if all your going to ski is groomers?

Perhaps because Europeans (in particular Austrians) tend to groom slopes better than Americans? And because you can easily find 2-mile-long wide groomers with consistent pitch? I've been to most major resorts around Tahoe, but the only place that comes close to Europe as far as groomers go is the Northstar backside (and still it is quite a bit shorter than what you'll find in Europe). Everything else is either shorter, or narrower, or has slow lifts, or all of the above.

 

[Ski&ride]

I am just addressing the assertion that European skiing is best done on the groomers

Nobody made THAT assertion.

But plenty of assertions were made on the many difference in skiing the Alps compared to North America.

So a vacationer on a one-two week trip to the Alps have to choose what to focus. Off piste isn’t that high on many people’s list to begin with. Add the extra guide cost, the priority drops further for many.

 

[Goose]

well,...let me tell ya.....being lucky enough as I am to live near enough the ski capital of the world (the Poconos), I just don't how any of you skiing elsewhere can put up with all your short runs. I mean on the longest runs I can literally have to ski for an unbelievable 2 and a half entire minutes before reaching the lift bottom from lift top. Yup its really that impressively long and so many of you dont know what your missing. Sometimes I get nervous I may get lost or not make it down before dark. If my son or daughter takes a different run down than me, they can be so far away for so long I miss them.

 

[Jacob]

The terrain in this shot except the upper most ridge is accessible via a single t-bar

Oh, I'm sure you could skin up that last bit if you wanted to, maybe even boot pack.

 

[fatbob]

OK let's try something different for the benefit of those who have never skied in Europe.

There are valid reasons to ski Europe if you are a groomer zoomer or cruiser. Nowhere in N America, not even Whistler, will you have the same scale and travel achievable simply by skiing groomers between connected resorts. It's the bread & butter and what most Euro holiday skiers go for, so avoid peak times if you don't wnat those groomers crowded.

Otherwise if you are an "all mountain" skier and particularly if you view groomers as the way back to the lift or something to do when conditions elsewhere are crappy, then you will be selling yourself short if you go to Europe without a plan for how you are going to ski off piste. That means willingness to spend money on guides etc or investment in your own avy kit and knowledge such that you are competent scoping unfamiliar terrain and making good decisions including navigation when outside the markers.* To be clear there is no halfway house - you shouldn't travel to Europe with an expectation that you can just busk it like you do in a US resort you haven't skied before.


* I do lots of off piste skiing in Europe and actually relatively little with a guide but beyond that which I can scope from safe places I won't go places wothout someone who has been there before and knows the route . Following tracks or trusting that other groups ahead of you know what they are doing is a recipe for disaster or at least a bit of Type II fun.

 

[jmeb]

Oh, I'm sure you could skin up that last bit if you wanted to, maybe even boot pack.

Or just grab the tram pictured and have a long traverse.

 

[Swede]

Nobody made THAT assertion.

But plenty of assertions were made on the many difference in skiing the Alps compared to North America.

So a vacationer on a one-two week trip to the Alps have to choose what to focus. Off piste isn’t that high on many people’s list to begin with. Add the extra guide cost, the priority drops further for many.

If off piste isn’t on your list, stay on piste. You don’t need a guide. Just read the map, easy as pie.
If you want to ski off piste, join a small guided group (5-6 skiers). It’s €60ish for a half-day 09:00-13:00 (+-€10-15). Your guide will whisk you to the best terrain/available conditions that suits your liking and capabilities.