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Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
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That means: If you have to be evacuated (helicopter), you pay for it. If you cause damage or injury to anything or anyone: you have to pay for it. You cannot claim form insurance if you damage your (renatal) gear, for example. In most areas, you can get some extra insurance for a few Euro that covers all that.
 

Jacob

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Just to add about the differences between the US and Europe. The big thing is the size difference. Even in a smaller ski area, there will be a lot more vertical on offer, and that leads to things you don't usually have to deal with in the US.

As mentioned earlier, there's a lot more terrain above tree line. There's better snow preservation up high, but the visibility decreases very quickly when the clouds come in. So, you have to be able to cope with flat light and low visibility. (For example, when the clouds rolled in today in Tignes, I rode one lift where I could only just barely see two chairs ahead of mine, and the entire piste back to base was above tree line, so visibility was low the whole way. That's not at all unusual.)

Also, anything with 1000 m or more of vertical will have big temperature differences from top to bottom on normal days. Usually, the temperature drops about 9 C (18 F) every 1000 m you go up. So if you're going to be skiing the entire mountain, then you've got to be dressed warm enough for the top but with enough ventilation and breathability for the bottom, because putting on and taking off layers over and over is a big hassle.

Finally, in the big areas, the horizontal distances are huge. You can ski between towns that are a few miles apart, so you have to keep a close eye on the time later in the day to make sure you can get back to your base. (For example, if go to the Le Fornet part of Val d'Isere tomorrow, then it will probably take me an hour to get back to the part of Tignes that I'm staying in this week. So, I've got to start heading back at about 3:30 to make sure I don't miss the connecting lifts.)
 
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at_nyc

Getting off the lift
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One more difference. And this is a good one. They don’t chase you off the mountain at 4 o’clock.

The lift may stop spinning. But you can still hang out up high to enjoy your drink, food and the sunset.

As long as you can ski back to where you need to go without needing a lift, that is.
 

TahoeCharlie

...Major Tom...
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There's no such thing as boundaries in Europe. So, there's no in-bounds or out-bounds either. Only open groomed runs are secured, patrolled and insured. Everything else is technically off-piste (even one meter from the run). Off-piste means: not covered by standard insurance, you're there at your own risk. This terrain is only secured (avalanche-wise) if other runs, buildings of installations below are at risk. Otherwise, you have to be able to calculate avalanche risk on your owen, need avy gear (transceiver, probe, shovel) or hire a guide (in most cases, avy gear is included in the price).

In the Dolomites, there is hardly any easy terrain to ski off-piste, other than some steep couloirs in spring. Moreover, if you trigger an avalanche, that a fellony.

In the Arlberg Region, Ischgl, Three Valeys, Tignes & Val d'Isère there is much more easily accessable off-piste terrain. Watch out for the white-outs though... Treeline is around 1800 meters above sea level in the Alps.

There seems to be a lot of confusing and contradictory info between "on-piste" and "off-piste" European skiing, insurance and guide needs. Posters here and on other threads keep saying you need a guide to go "off-piste" and you are not covered by insurance. This is NOT correct unless something has changed drastically in the past few years. I have been skiing all over Europe for the last 40 years and had two accidents off piste requiring medical assistance, both were fully covered by "ticket sir-charge" insurance. One, a non-dislocated fore-arm fracture at Val D'isere while using a Mono-ski (don't ask) and two, a dislocated collar-bone and slight concussion (no helmet) at Lech from hitting a hole during white-out dump conditions.

Every time I have bought multi-day passes in Europe, they have automatically added an insurance sir-charge (about $5/day) which covers ALL expenses. For my concussion in Lech they took me off the mtn in a sled, transported me to the local hospital in an ambulance, had x-rays, overnight stay, privet room and transportation back to my lodging - ALL FREE - I didn't pay a penny. I was skiing off-piste on an un-groomed slope both times.

On-piste v Off-piste: Most lifts in Europe have at lest one "groomed" (piste) run from the top to the bottom. If you ski on it, you are "on-piste", if you ski off it you are "off-piste" - simple as that. I have never seen a sign saying you can't ski "off-piste" or need a guide or avy gear to to do so.

This needs further explanation/clarification: See my pictures posted above of Courchevel. All of them show a groomed/piste run from the top with extensive open slopes on either side. Note that most of them have moguls, they don't groom them every night. If you zoom in, you will see that the open slopes are totally tracked out. This is "off-piste" but totally permissible to ski on with NO restrictions as hundreds of skiers have done in these pictures. Generally speaking, any open slope accessible from a groomed/piste run, that leads to the bottom of the lift is skiable without restrictions. You do NOT need avy gear or a guide.

Exceptions: in the first picture, notice the couloirs to the right under the tram top station. These are skiable, but I, personally, would not ski them WITHOUT a guide.- they are about 3 times the height of the Palisades at Squaw and steep! Also there are innumerable runs in these resorts that are NOT off groomed/piste access, similar to "back/side country gates" in the U.S. You need a guide to ski these runs or you are taking a serious risk of injury or getting lost.

BTW, all the skied out on/off piste slopes in the pictures, except for the couloirs, are avy controlled by "Dragons Breath", compressed air/propane "snow cannons" - very impressive when they go off. You can see some of them if you zoom in; they are the upside down "J" shaped things near the ridge tops.

These pictures were taken after a 20 inch dump - awesome ski day.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
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It's not that you get fined if you don't have avy gear, you'll just be dead if something happens. This is not something that is governed by the law (except in some Italian regions,, where skiing off-piste is simply forbidden), but in all other cases it's governed by common sense. And yes, awareness has gone up dramatically in the past 5 years or so.
 

Tytlynz64

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I am seriously considering making the trip. Can anyone recommend a good planning or booking resource to help with the accomodations and transport to and from a major airport. Mi would prefer a train or bus. Probably won’t travel much other than the area I stay in. Thanks.
 

newfydog

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Excellent suggestions above for Arlberg region. The other "Mega" area is Les3Vallees in France: Courcheval, Meribel, and Val Thorens, the largest ski area in the world - 150+ interconnected lifts. I've been to both several times. you won't be bored in either one. Both are relatively high, so good snow.
View attachment 34887 View attachment 34888 View attachment 34889

Exactly. Very few areas in Europe, the Dolomites in particular, are even in the same league as those areas. Nice photos!
 

Jacob

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It's not that you get fined if you don't have avy gear, you'll just be dead if something happens. This is not something that is governed by the law (except in some Italian regions,, where skiing off-piste is simply forbidden), but in all other cases it's governed by common sense. And yes, awareness has gone up dramatically in the past 5 years or so.

The other thing people forget about is cliffs and other such hazards. Something that starts out nice could lead you to a danger that you might not see. Yesterday in Val d'Isere, I had to warn a lone snowboarder who was about to go over a section of rocks under the Grand Pre lift. He couldn't see it from where he was standing, and he obviously didn't make a mental note of where the hazards were when he rode the lift up.
 

Jacob

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I am seriously considering making the trip. Can anyone recommend a good planning or booking resource to help with the accomodations and transport to and from a major airport. Mi would prefer a train or bus. Probably won’t travel much other than the area I stay in. Thanks.

Most resort sites have an accommodation finder. That's what I use when staying in St. Anton, because all of the little B&Bs are listed there. For other places, I also check Hotels.com and similar sites.

One reason I recommend St. Anton and Arosa is because you can just roll up to the train station in Zurich airport and buy train tickets then and there. You can do the same from Geneva for some Swiss resorts. For the big French resorts, there are bus companies offering transfers to/from the airport. Just Google "transfers Geneva" and the name of the resort.

The problem with those is that you have to book ahead, which might cause problems if your flight is delayed.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
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In France, Moutiers and Bourg St. Maurice are intercity train stops, from where regular bus services run to the Three Valleys, Tignes & Val d'Isère and Paradiski (Les Arcs & La Plagne). I think Lyon international airport is on that train line as well.
 

Jacob

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Thanks. Time to google.

The best first step is to check on flights. Check for Geneva, Zurich, Munich, Turin, Milan, and Venice.

Once you find the airport that has the best flight options for you, then you can focus your search on the resorts around that airport.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
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A fatality today in Serfaus, Austria. Right underneath a lift, ana avalanche burried a German. A search party arrived with dogs and about 100 ski instructors. They found the guy, but it was too late. He had no avy gear, and (clearly, to me) no awareness of the danger. On a north facing slope, 34 degrees steep with windblown powder... That's a No Go. A guide would have known that, as would a person who is prepared, knows what he is doing and carrying the proper gear.
You can go off-piste. Just make sure you know where (not) to go and what to do if something happens. And wear your Transceiver!

http://wepowder.com/en/forum/topic/251281
 

apache

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Lots of good responses on this post. It's appreciated! It's overwhelming to google and review some of the suggested areas due to the sheer volume. Looking at the Onthesnow reviews for some of the above suggestions, I see a lot of talk about ski apre. Though I appreciate a good after skiing adult bevy, the ski apre/night life is the very last thing on my list of importance. My wife and I once took a trip to Breck not knowing it was college week. BIG MISTAKE.

Anyways, point being is that I would like some suggestions for locations where the atmosphere is friendlier for older middle aged farts.
:daffy:
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
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Lots of good responses on this post. It's appreciated! It's overwhelming to google and review some of the suggested areas due to the sheer volume. Looking at the Onthesnow reviews for some of the above suggestions, I see a lot of talk about ski apre. Though I appreciate a good after skiing adult bevy, the ski apre/night life is the very last thing on my list of importance. My wife and I once took a trip to Breck not knowing it was college week. BIG MISTAKE.

Anyways, point being is that I would like some suggestions for locations where the atmosphere is friendlier for older middle aged farts.
:daffy:
Don't worry. Avoid places like Gerlos, Mayrhofen, Brixen im Thale in the DUtch School Holidays and you'll be fine. Ischgl and Sölden are famous for parties too, but if you just don't go into that bar yourself, there's nothing to worrie about. Again: it's all worse during school holidays, roughly Feb 10-March 4.
 

ScotsSkier

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lots of good suggestions I would concur with.

My choices in order would be:
Val d'isere/Tignes (still my personal all time favorite having skied most of Europe and North America)
St. Anton
Trois Vallee

and in Italy, not seen it mentioned here but also some great skiing (and food of course!) Gressony area

Some other thoughts
Zermatt - good skiing and scenery but the mountain and lift layout tends to make you gravitate to individual parts of the area for the day rather than being able to "roam" like the resorts above
Verbier - good skiing but too many Brits! :rolleyes: :popcorn:

and one more sleeper, that also gives you a lot of area to explore, Avoriaz
 

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