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Epic vs Ikon: One Pass to Ski Them All

raytseng

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Very good read. nuanced and detailed of the business models and kingmakers behind it. A step up from usual dreck that just summarizes the basic landscape for newcomers.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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I agree. It’s a good article that pretty much sums up the new business models dominating the ski industry. I think we will see more to come.
 
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Golfjunkie

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I think from the Vail/Alterra perspective, it is difficult to juggle the financial benefits of the season pass versus the cost of the day lift ticket for the one weekend a year ski crowd. The day lift tickets are necessary to grow the sport but the price increases are steep. And, and at some price, the prices will deter people from going for the day/weekend. Something about elasticity of demand...
 

Ken_R

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Denver, CO
I think from the Vail/Alterra perspective, it is difficult to juggle the financial benefits of the season pass versus the cost of the day lift ticket for the one weekend a year ski crowd. The day lift tickets are necessary to grow the sport but the price increases are steep. And, and at some price, the prices will deter people from going for the day/weekend. Something about elasticity of demand...


Its not really about the cost of pass vs the day ticket but the access to capital it gives the company well before the season starts. To have committed customers and their money well before the season starts is a huge deal.

I agree, at some point the sport needs growth (new skiers/riders) and most all independent ski areas offer first timer or beginner packages (lift/lessons/gear) for much less money than any IKON/EPIC resort. If that is gone then what...
 

Wasatchman

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The article is a good read. In my view, the article is not supportive of people trying to make the argument that Alterra's business model is different than Vail's. They seem very much the same to me.

I really don't understand some of the sentiment from some Pugski members of F*** Vail but Alterra is awesome. I really don't get the difference. Maybe someone can explain that sentiment better in the context of this article? I love the cheap multipasses and am buying them, even though I really don't like where I think this will ulitmately be going.

And while I am not necessarily trying to be a Vail defender, I do sometimes wonder why they get such a bad rap in general on Pugski but Alterra is generally seen as much better.

Here's something that I found very surprising. EVERY single employee I have spoken to at Crested Butte is happy about the takeover by Vail. I was surprised to hear pay and benefits are immediately better versus the ownership under the Muellers. There is excitement that Vail has the money to invest in improved infrastructure. And Vail has made a point to say that they want to keep Crested Butte unique, something that every employee I spoke to believes and seems to be happening so far. If anyone has something to the contrary to say about this, I'd like to hear it because like I said, shockingly, literally EVERY single Crested Butte employee I've spoken to is happy about the Vail takeover.
 

LKLA

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Its not really about the cost of pass vs the day ticket but the access to capital it gives the company well before the season starts. To have committed customers and their money well before the season starts is a huge deal.

I agree, at some point the sport needs growth (new skiers/riders) and most all independent ski areas offer first timer or beginner packages (lift/lessons/gear) for much less money than any IKON/EPIC resort. If that is gone then what...

It’s not so much about when they get the money. It’s much more about trying to “guarantee” and “de-risk” themselves that they will get that revenue. It’s not so much the timing but the “risk” or “assurance” or “recurring nature” of the revenue that they (and shareholders) value. The so-called high quality revenue - recurring revenue.

Vail has plenty of liquidity to do all the seasonal work it needs to (for more than one season!).

Timing is indeed more important to smaller / single mountain operators who unfortunately often are not able to easily access funds or often have been postponing investments and at some point are hit with an issue of some kind ahead of season.
 
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