epic vs IKON 19/20

[onstar1]

Will the places that have the Epic pass be less crowded than the IKON resorts? and whos renewing their IKON pass?
Iwas pretty discouraged at some of the IKON resorts this year due to crowds. A friend of mines just came back from Whistler and noticed it was a lot less crowded compared to last year. It could be the lack of snow or that IKON stole some of Whislters crowds.

 

[marjoram_sage]

I was thinking about getting the Ikon because Epic locations had a lot of crowds . My personal data points this season from epic pass:

• Beaver Creek Xmas holidays: rarely waited more than 5 minutes in line for beginner/intermediate terrain. Morning wait of around 10 to 20 minutes for the main gondola. Beaver Creek has multiple ways to get up on the mountain so this wait can be avoided.
  
• Northstar (regular weekends in Dec/Jan/Feb): rarely waited LESS than 5 minutes in line. Average would be 10 minutes. No reason to visit Northstar unless you are in California/Nevada.
  
• Park City (regular weekend in Feb): long lines of 30 to 45 minutes to get up on the mountain on Canyons side. Not many alternatives to get up on the mountain. Lines < 2 mins after getting away from the base for intermediate terrain.

I would speculate that Ikon crowding will increase next year because more people know about Ikon now than last year. Epic pass crowding should go down.

 

[raytseng]

unless your friend skied the exact same week or the whole season, it is really hard to compare a single week as the full season. Lack of snow decreases both supply and demand, so you have less people but on less good acreage so crowding stays at the same same ratio
You can go by the mtn stock price and investor reports that indeed there has been an ikon hit to vail, but this is only 1 year and things fluctuate so much.
If I look at the twitter for when heavenly parking is full it still is pretty competitive

Ultimately you need to just pick where you want to ski. So many other variables for your ski days and how much fun you have on then; the one thing that stays more or less constant is the literal mountains themselves stay the same no matter who is running the lifts.

 

[KingGrump]

Iwas pretty discouraged at some of the IKON resorts this year due to crowds. A friend of mines just came back from Whistler and noticed it was a lot less crowded compared to last year. It could be the lack of snow or that IKON stole some of Whislters crowds.

2018/2019 season being a good snow year everywhere probably helped to reduce the crowd level at W/B. During my season there in 2016/2017, It was a total cluster. That season an Epic pass will get you 5 days at W/B.

Another data point. Skied JH during President week in 2014 and 2019. It was way more crowded back in 2014.

 

[Chef23]

I find it interesting that today if you wait more than 5 minutes in line everyone is upset. I am fine with 10. I would prefer to ski right on the lift but I remember many weekends with 30+ minute waits when I was younger. If you got 10-12 runs in a day it was a good day.

Regarding the Canyons I stayed at the Canyons side for the first time this year and the fact that there are only two lifts from the base and both are subject to wind holds (gondola and bubble chair) is a huge draw back. One day we took an uber over to Park City because both lifts were closed and there was a massive line at the gondola waiting for it to open. Over at PC where there are multiple chairs that were running we pretty much got right on the lift and started skiing.

I am thinking about a pass for next year and probably need to think about where my trip out west will be. I didn't get one this year and should have as I wound up making two trips and it cost me money. The downside for me is most of my skiing in New England is at Waterville Valley because I have a free place to stay and they aren't part of any larger program.

 

[Jersey Skier]

The downside for me is most of my skiing in New England is at Waterville Valley because I have a free place to stay and they aren't part of any larger program.

Curious if you find that Waterville Valley is less crowded now that so many people are skiing their passes at other mountains?

 

[New2]

For vacationers, it's almost certainly worth waiting a little longer to see what Mountain Collective offers.

I find it interesting that today if you wait more than 5 minutes in line everyone is upset. I am fine with 10. I would prefer to ski right on the lift but I remember many weekends with 30+ minute waits when I was younger. If you got 10-12 runs in a day it was a good day.

Regarding the Canyons I stayed at the Canyons side for the first time this year and the fact that there are only two lifts from the base and both are subject to wind holds (gondola and bubble chair) is a huge draw back. One day we took an uber over to Park City because both lifts were closed and there was a massive line at the gondola waiting for it to open. Over at PC where there are multiple chairs that were running we pretty much got right on the lift and started skiing.

You make a great point about lift lines of yesteryear. But on the other hand, not waiting in line is a lot better I believe Park City is looking at Summer 2020 to replace the Sunrise lift, making it a third portal from the Canyons base up onto the mountain.

 

[Chef23]

Curious if you find that Waterville Valley is less crowded now that so many people are skiing their passes at other mountains?

I don't find it much less crowded than in the past few years. Holiday weekends are still busy but the lift capacity of the two detachables from the base keeps lines usually under 5 minutes.

 

[PinnacleJim]

An option for vacationers is the "4-packs" offered by many ski areas. You do have to buy early (like the passes) but much less expensive. For the Summit County Colorado vacationer, a Copper or Keystone 4-pack plus a couple days bought online in advance at Loveland or A-Basin can be an economical way to go.

 

[4aprice]

I find it interesting that today if you wait more than 5 minutes in line everyone is upset. I am fine with 10. I would prefer to ski right on the lift but I remember many weekends with 30+ minute waits when I was younger. If you got 10-12 runs in a day it was a good day.

51st year on skis and I agree that lift lines are certainly not as bad as they used to be. High capacity lifts have changed the game. Was just discussing with the wife how in 3 to 4 hours we seem to be getting as much skiing in as we did in an entire day back in the 70's.

I am thinking about a pass for next year and probably need to think about where my trip out west will be. I didn't get one this year and should have as I wound up making two trips and it cost me money. The downside for me is most of my skiing in New England is at Waterville Valley because I have a free place to stay and they aren't part of any larger program.

A western trip is what really makes these passes work. (and as I understand that's what they are designed to do). While not the most economical solution we have 2 season passes, one for a local mountain and an Ikon base pass, a situation I am very happy with. We get 4 to 6 weekends in Northern New England (basically 1 weekend at each Ikon area (VT/NH) + a couple of weekends I hold open for travel), Always hold a couple of Killington in reserve for late season fun. 8-12 days out west (at least 1, usually 2 trips - son lives in Denver) and the rest here at home including any holiday periods when I refuse to travel. Don't know what a Waterville pass (not the White Mountain Super Pass) costs but I have always liked the place and would take it over my home bump and go with the same strategy if I could.

 

[BC.]

An option for vacationers is the "4-packs" offered by many ski areas. You do have to buy early (like the passes) but much less expensive. For the Summit County Colorado vacationer, a Copper or Keystone 4-pack plus a couple days bought online in advance at Loveland or A-Basin can be an economical way to go.

Anybody have any extra 4 packs to sell?...

Looking to come out at Easter, weighing my options for tickets?

 

[Jim Kenney]

sometimes craigslist can help: https://denver.craigslist.org/spo/d/westminster-ski-passes-copper-mountain/6832540287.html

 

[DoryBreaux]

I'm renewing my uphill pass for public lands, and that's the only one I'm 100% sure of.

 

[PinnacleJim]

Just be aware that the 4-packs, like season passes, are non-transferable. Buy one on craigslist with your eyes open and aware of the possible consequences.

 

[sbooker]

For vacationers, it's almost certainly worth waiting a little longer to see what Mountain Collective offers.



You make a great point about lift lines of yesteryear. But on the other hand, not waiting in line is a lot better I believe Park City is looking at Summer 2020 to replace the Sunrise lift, making it a third portal from the Canyons base up onto the mountain.

The Mountain Collective thing is a good point.
If travelling from another country (like myself) for a ski holiday an Ikon Base Pass will cost me about $900 Aussie Pesos while a Mountain Collective will cost about $600 Aussie. An Epic Australia Pass will be about $900 Aussie.
I only do a few days here in Australia because I live about 1000 miles from the snow and to be honest it's not great skiing compared to most other places. I get those few days whichever pass I go with.
To me the Mountain Collective and Ikon hills are more attractive than the Epic hills. A flight into SLC gives me the chance to ski at least 4 days at Alta/Snowbird and then more in either Wyoming/Montana or Colorado/New Mexico. I would aim to get about 10 days skiing in between other tourist activities so the cost per day is definitely under $100 Aud regardless of which pass I get.

I've been reading about the crowds this year and I can't help thinking that I may be better to do a road trip to interior British Columbia and check out a few of the mountains there. The cost of skiing would be about the same and the cost of accommodation etc would likely be less. Even staying within the US there are some second tier mountains I would love to ski.

So I guess pass selection is important for a resident but maybe less so for a tourist.

 

[skinavy]

We've got Ikon this year (Max in years past), but are thinking of switching it up to Epic, to explore the Vail family. No issues w Ikon at all, just may want to look at other hills.
We are considering a Powder Hwy swing next season- looks like each pass has decent options. Whistler notwithstanding, thoughts on one vs the other for the Canadian West?

 

[Lorenzzo]

2018/2019 season being a good snow year everywhere probably helped to reduce the crowd level at W/B. During my season there in 2016/2017, It was a total cluster. That season an Epic pass will get you 5 days at W/B.

Another data point. Skied JH during President week in 2014 and 2019. It was way more crowded back in 2014.

Interesting to hear you say that. It's my first year in the area but those who have been going multiple years are blown away by the crowds and 5-7 boat tram rides. Maybe it's the one data point? Or short memories? Or....

 

[Mike Rogers]

We've got Ikon this year (Max in years past), but are thinking of switching it up to Epic, to explore the Vail family. No issues w Ikon at all, just may want to look at other hills.
We are considering a Powder Hwy swing next season- looks like each pass has decent options. Whistler notwithstanding, thoughts on one vs the other for the Canadian West?

It comes down to a choice between Fernie and Kicking Horse vs Revelstoke, Lake Louise, and Sunshine. Kimberley (Epic), Nakiska (Epic), and Norquay (IKON) are not really worth too much of your time.

The timing of my trip would determine my choice. Lake Louise and Sunshine are usually better in April than Fernie and Kicking Horse. March is a bit of a wash. Mid February or earlier, choose Fernie and Kicking Horse over Banff. Revelstoke will be more like Fernie and Kicking Horse for seasonality.

I have a season pass that includes Fernie, Kicking Horse, and Lake Louise. I skied Lake Louise a bunch early on, and will return when things get sloppy in BC, but I generally prefer Fernie and Kicking Horse to the Banff resorts. They get more snow, and in my opinion, have more interesting terrain.

If you want to rank snow quantity:
1) Revelstoke
2) Fernie
3) Kicking Horse
4) Sunshine
5) Louise

Snow preservation at Louise and Sunshine is excellent, and winter rains are rare. Rain at Fernie and Revelstoke is not uncommon, but it usually doesn't get to the best terrain.

For terrain, I would rank Kicking Horse as most interesting and Sunshine as least interesting. The ranking of the other 3 is less clear. I prefer Fernie's trees to Revelstokes, and Louise has way more alpine than either. Revelstoke has a lot of fun little drops and hits though.

Personally, I am not a huge fan of Sunshine (the dive is nice and the spring skiing can be fun though), and I think Revelstoke is over-hyped. Many people disagree with me though.

It might be worth looking at independent resorts as well. Red is awesome, so is Whitewater.....and Castle is great, and not too expensive.

 

[KingGrump]

Interesting to hear you say that. It's my first year in the area but those who have been going multiple years are blown away by the crowds and 5-7 boat tram rides. Maybe it's the one data point? Or short memories? Or....

I remembered our 2014 visits at JH pretty well since that was the first time since my season there in 1988.

2014, we were in JH for President week and another 1-1/2 week in March. Total zoo. The tram was running about 4-5 boats for Pesident week. 3 boats for the March week. This year's president week tram line looked a bit longer. Much quieter on Tue and Wed. About 3 boat. Went crazy on Thu and after. Probably the weekend warrior with a check list.
The rest of the mountain is much quieter this season than in 2014. I am comparing the 2019 President week vs both weeks in 2014.
The line at the Bridger gondola to get out of the base area was a breeze this year due to the new Sweetwater gondola. They did good there.
I also noticed the lines at Thunder and Sublet were much shorter this year than in either week of 2014. Probably due to Sweetwater which moved lots of lower level skiers to the other side of the mountain.

 

[Tricia]

I remembered our 2014 visits at JH pretty well since that was the first time since my season there in 1988.

2014, we were in JH for President week and another 1-1/2 week in March. Total zoo. The tram was running about 4-5 boats for Pesident week. 3 boats for the March week. This year's president week tram line looked a bit longer. Much quieter on Tue and Wed. About 3 boat. Went crazy on Thu and after. Probably the weekend warrior with a check list.
The rest of the mountain is much quieter this season than in 2014. I am comparing the 2019 President week vs both weeks in 2014.
The line at the Bridger gondola to get out of the base area was a breeze this year due to the new Sweetwater gondola. They did good there.
I also noticed the lines at Thunder and Sublet were much shorter this year than in either week of 2014. Probably due to Sweetwater which moved lots of lower level skiers to the other side of the mountain.

I recall tram lines being about the same this time as they were the last time we were there which was about 4 or 5 years ago.

Also, we've skied a few Epic resorts this year, Beaver Creek included and it was insane. I had to keep my head on a swivel and the lines (depending on the part of BC we were skiing) were longer than I was used to the last time I was at BC.

Again, like we were saying at the Gathering....no one skis here anymore because its too crowded