Colorado Epic pass Xmas trip for beginners: Beaver Creek or Crested Butte

[marjoram_sage]

All,

Thanks for your advice and suggestions. We ended up spending full 2 weeks at Beaver Creek. We don't have that much winter driving experience and once we did the drive over Loveland and Vail pass, we didn't have the stomach to do it again to go to Crested Butte.

There were hardly any lines at Beaver Creek till the 27th. After that it stayed fairly busy until the 6th. I really enjoyed the soft snow at the top of the mountain in Red Buffalo area. The snow in the lower sections would usually get scraped off and sometimes it was icy in the morning. I did 3 day lessons and one lesson was outstanding, one was average and one was terrible. I should send an email to Beaver Creek about the terrible lesson. Pure waste of time and money. The last (best) lesson really helped me become confident on blues. My last few days I went on trails with blue sections such as Goldrush, Cabin Fever, Rushlock. Some of these were icy but I got confident coming down on hard, icy sections. Overall 2 weeks of skiing really made a difference.

I also realized that taking lesson on the busy days was a mistake. Ski school lines weren't any shorter than the regular lines. When I was skiing on my own, I could use the singles line and spend less time waiting compared ski school line.

Staying in Avon, we would take the skier shuttle. The walk from the shuttle stop to the beginner area (Haymeadow express) is quite long. On some days one of their mountain ambassadors would offer to carry skis for us and we happily accepted the offer. It's nice that they have escalators for the stairs. We did not like the learning area at the top of Haymeadow gondola. The magic carpets are laid out very close together and the slope is so low that sometimes you cannot figure out which way is up or down. The entrance and exit to the magic carpets are not properly sloped so people get stuck while getting on and off and it creates a huge line. There is plenty of space below the gondola and it would have been nice if they had kept one magic carpet there instead of cramming four near top of Haymeadow.

Would I go back to Beaver Creek? Only if I can go back during off peak times for a week and collect enough points to stay at the Park Hyatt or Ritz Carlton. We lost first couple of days to altitude sickness and b/c of that I don't think I would do a 3-4 day trip to Colorado. Other factor is going to Beaver creek takes more time and effort than going to places around SLC. We are going to PCMR for 3 days in Feb and Mar. We are planning to stay at the Waldorf on Canyons side. I think it's more convenient than taking the skier shuttle from Avon. Depending on snow, we might do one day of our Feb/Mar trip at Brighton or Pow Mow as I won't be buying epic pass next year and would like to spend more time at ski areas rather than places with large base villages. After visiting NorthStar, Keystone and Beaver Creek, I've realized that base village implies unnecessary walking in ski boots to get from shuttle to lifts.

 

[marjoram_sage]

Another thing to note: you can overnight check your skis near the entrance to centennial lift. It is $12 per day. Just for comparison it was $5/day at Keystone. There are day lockers in the Spruce Saddle lodge. I would leave my backpack with extra socks and base layers at cookie cabin (top of Cinch lift). They have glove warmers/driers in cookie cabin. Only kids in ski school get free cookies but everyone can use the space to get warm on cold days. One a couple of days it was -5 F and it was nice to go in for a little bit.

 

[marjoram_sage]

After the Beaver Creek trip, I did a trip to Northstar in January and Park City Canyons this weekend. Both of them were more crowded than the holiday season at the Beav. While suffering in those lines, I try to feel happy about spending bulk of my skiing days this season at the Beav! And I fondly recall how nice everything was at Beaver Creek. One great thing about the Epic Pass is it gives you unlimited days at their top properties. You can't get unlimited days at Deer Valley with the Ikon.

I'd love to go back to BC in March or April but I just haven't been able to work out the travel schedule compared to PCMR or the Tahoe places. I guess that's what makes it less crowded than other Epic pass destinations.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Good feedback from a newbie perspective. You are starting pretty near the top of the food chain with your new addiction to skiing If you like a little bit of posh and pampering with your ski vacations Beaver Creek is going to be hard to beat – right up there with Deer Valley.

In case you try a different pass next year, the Aspen areas seem to be among the least busy of the big name resorts. The other way to avoid crowds is to explore the smaller, more remote ski areas.

 

[Mike King]

Try Snowmass — fewer people, great family oriented activities, cheaper than BC.

 

[marjoram_sage]

Good feedback from a newbie perspective. You are starting pretty near the top of the food chain with your new addiction to skiing If you like a little bit of posh and pampering with your ski vacations Beaver Creek is going to be hard to beat – right up there with Deer Valley.

I do like nice places but I'm actually pretty cheap. I can proudly say that we only ate a couple of meals in restaurants during the Beaver Creek trip. We did one way rental cars to/from DEN to avoid the outrageous parking/airport shuttle prices. All but one of the 15 nights was paid with hotel points. Since we had already bought the pass in spring, there was no extra cost for us to go to Beaver Creek compared to another beginner friendly resort, Northstar. Lessons at Northstar are actually more expensive than Beaver Creek.

In case you try a different pass next year, the Aspen areas seem to be among the least busy of the big name resorts. The other way to avoid crowds is to explore the smaller, more remote ski areas.

Try Snowmass — fewer people, great family oriented activities, cheaper than BC.

I'd love to go to Snowmass as it has the right terrain and crowds. What I need to figure out is how to ski there beyond the 7 days from Ikon pass. If we incur the travel time/cost to go to Aspen, I'd hate to go there for just 7 days.

I think for next year, I'm going to look at the full cost of trip including flights, lessons, lodging, necessity of rental car. Sometimes that means paying more for the ski pass. I spent most of my hotel points this year so it won't be easy to go to nicer places during holidays.

It seems like ski resorts crowds are primarily affected by ease of access. We might end up visiting a remote/small ski area for holidays. Brundage, Targhee, Schweitzer, Silver, Pow Mow all look like great choices that can be accessed by Southwest flights.

 

[tball]

My wife and I are beginner skiers with a 4 year old daughter. We want her to learn to ski as a kid.

I'd love to go to Snowmass as it has the right terrain and crowds. What I need to figure out is how to ski there beyond the 7 days from Ikon pass. If we incur the travel time/cost to go to Aspen, I'd hate to go there for just 7 days.

Add a day or three at Copper Mountain on each end of an Aspen trip in transit from DIA. If you ski Copper during the week there are no concerns about crowds, and Copper has absolutely fantastic beginner terrain that is naturally-divided from the rest of the mountain. Our kiddos are now 7 and have been skiing Copper since 3, mostly on the weekend, and we've loved it. Weekdays will be even better.

 

[Seldomski]

The more 'exclusive' Vail locations are simply going to be better overall experiences for an intermediate. That means the most expensive (Vail, BC) or hardest to get to.

PCMR, Breck, Keystone are simply another tier down from Vail/BC for an intermediate skier. They tend to be more crowded since they are easier to access and have fewer blackout days on the cheaper epic passes. Vail likes to market all of their properties as if they are equal tier (and charge almost the same $$ for everything at all), but they simply are not. Even though the food, lodging, etc are all getting pretty similar in price at all, the overall experience is not the same. With some additional experience/knowledge you can learn how to avoid crowds and have a great time at any of them, but just showing up on some random day, booking whatever hotel, Vail and BC are likely to stand out as far as fewest people and best overall (intermediate) conditions (at least during peak ski time - they tend to not be as good very late season since they are lower elevation).

I can't speak to Northstar, having never been there to ski.

Not saying Vail overall sucks... you just happened to pick the worst way to get into things. What I mean is you went to the very nicest place first, then went to the less nice places. You are spoiled now

 

[New2]

Sounds like a great time in Beaver Creek!

It seems like ski resorts crowds are primarily affected by ease of access. We might end up visiting a remote/small ski area for holidays. Brundage, Targhee, Schweitzer, Silver, Pow Mow all look like great choices that can be accessed by Southwest flights.

While crowds=ease of access is generally true, it's least true during holiday periods--since, just like you, lots of other people are also looking to take advantage of the time available to get somewhere more remote. Sometimes areas that depend heavily on locals are actually less crowded during holidays than on many other regular 2-day weekends.

Grand Targhee is ~5 hours from SLC... if you're willing to do that kind of drive after a flight, that opens up a huge range of options.

 

[marjoram_sage]

That's quite interesting. I'm guessing the remote areas on multi resort passes will still be crowded around holidays. So I need to find an area that's not on a multi resort pass AND remote. I don't want to risk going to a place with more than 20% drought risk ( % of 30 days with < 30 in).

But how do you explain the fewer crowds at Beaver Creek during holiday period compared to regular weekend crowds at PCMR & Northstar? The period after Jan 2 is not blacked not and that did not lead to any noticeable increase in crowds at BC.

 

[Mike King]

I do like nice places but I'm actually pretty cheap. I can proudly say that we only ate a couple of meals in restaurants during the Beaver Creek trip. We did one way rental cars to/from DEN to avoid the outrageous parking/airport shuttle prices. All but one of the 15 nights was paid with hotel points. Since we had already bought the pass in spring, there was no extra cost for us to go to Beaver Creek compared to another beginner friendly resort, Northstar. Lessons at Northstar are actually more expensive than Beaver Creek.





I'd love to go to Snowmass as it has the right terrain and crowds. What I need to figure out is how to ski there beyond the 7 days from Ikon pass. If we incur the travel time/cost to go to Aspen, I'd hate to go there for just 7 days.

I think for next year, I'm going to look at the full cost of trip including flights, lessons, lodging, necessity of rental car. Sometimes that means paying more for the ski pass. I spent most of my hotel points this year so it won't be easy to go to nicer places during holidays.

It seems like ski resorts crowds are primarily affected by ease of access. We might end up visiting a remote/small ski area for holidays. Brundage, Targhee, Schweitzer, Silver, Pow Mow all look like great choices that can be accessed by Southwest flights.

 

[David Chaus]

It seems like ski resorts crowds are primarily affected by ease of access. We might end up visiting a remote/small ski area for holidays. Brundage, Targhee, Schweitzer, Silver, Pow Mow all look like great choices that can be accessed by Southwest flights.

You are on the right track with Schweitzer and Targhee. Maybe Brundage, though it has far fewer amenities and no lodging at the slopes, though McCall is a short drive and a nice town, and the resort offers a free shuttle several times a day.

Silver Mt and Pow Mow have much more of an old-school local’s vibe, rustic lodges and mostly fixed-grip chairs ( Pow Mow does have a detachable quad). Silver has a gondola to get you to the slopes, but it still screams old-school. The hotel and water park at the bottom is nice.

Schweitzer is my favorite resort with the combination of uncrowded with fun terrain and modern infrastructure and amenities.

 

[djetok]

After the Beaver Creek trip, I did a trip to Northstar in January and Park City Canyons this weekend. Both of them were more crowded than the holiday season at the Beav. While suffering in those lines, I try to feel happy about spending bulk of my skiing days this season at the Beav! And I fondly recall how nice everything was at Beaver Creek. One great thing about the Epic Pass is it gives you unlimited days at their top properties. You can't get unlimited days at Deer Valley with the Ikon.

I'd love to go back to BC in March or April but I just haven't been able to work out the travel schedule compared to PCMR or the Tahoe places. I guess that's what makes it less crowded than other Epic pass destinations.

Besides the base elevation Crested would be a good option. I don't know what flights look like to Gunnison (we drive) . You can shuttle to Mt CB from the airport and stay on mountain. We stay at the elevation (no Waldorf) its nice. The ski valet is awesome and the mountain right out the backdoor. Also room service does not accept tips, and the price of food is the same as when you at 9380 prime. You order from an app . We order from the app then ski down to eat at lunch. Like I said the elevation is 9k + base. We always take chloroxygen before we go and it helps.

We always go during new years and it was not busy at all.

@tball is on the money about copper both of my kids started at copper and it is has excellent beginner terrain. I felt very comfortable with a 8 & 6 year old never evers on the east village mountain. The instructors did a very good job too. They are now 14 and 12 and ski mostly everything on the mountain.

 

[marjoram_sage]

Copper is also high elevation like Crested Butte. My Thanksgiving trip to Keystone for 5 days has made me cautious about elevation. We were lucky to have enough snow there since Keystone has 34% drought risk. Even with that great early season snow, the Mountain House beginner area at the bottom of mountain wasn't open. As a result we were doing most of our skiing at 11k and sleeping at 9300'. That elevation really made us miserable. We were really exhausted as the beginner technique of snow plough requires more energy. And it's not easy to convince a child to drink more water. I guess we can keep giving kids more hot chocolate: carbs + liquids. That Keystone trip was not a good idea. I got a bit carried away with trip planning once I bought the pass .

The beginner Red Buffalo area at Beaver Creek is also high, I think mostly above 10k. But we were sleeping at 7000' and we were there for two weeks, so the acclimation period wasn't too onerous. I think places like Copper, CB, Keystone are fantastic places for a trip in April when the elevation really helps with snow preservation. Plus they are more drought prone, which is too much of a risk early in the season. Copper is 21% drought prone and Crested Butte 38%. I'm curious how much beginner/intermediate terrain is open in April at these places.


stats are from http://bestsnow.net/ncconet.htm

 

[Mike King]

Aspen offered a 7 day classic pass for 399 this season. Days beyond 7 were 50 percent of the window rate.

 

[tball]

I think places like Copper, CB, Keystone are fantastic places for a trip in April when the elevation really helps with snow preservation. Plus they are more drought prone, which is too much of a risk early in the season.

Actually, Keystone and Copper are also some of the best early season choices because of their high altitude combined with extensive snowmaking.

As a beginner/intermediate family, I think you may be too focused on stats that don't matter much to you. Bestsnow/Zrankings are more tailored to powder chasers that want to ski more difficult terrain.

Grooming eliminates the majority of the impact of "Drought Threat" on beginner and intermediate terrain, for one example. If a resort is 50% open, that's probably 100% of the runs you want to ski, for another.

Snowmaking, grooming, and crowds are probably much more important to you. Crowds are impacted more by when you go than where you go. There's a lot more too it than can be boiled down to stats when you get to choices for an individual!

 

[marjoram_sage]

Snowmaking, grooming, and crowds are probably much more important to you. Crowds are impacted more by when you go than where you go. There's a lot more too it than can be boiled down to stats when you get to choices for an individual!

Very insightful and interesting. Definitely changed the way I will evaluate ski areas.

 

[Jack skis]

You can really learn something scrolling through Pugski, like Drought Threat. I gotta tell ya I've been a skier for many years, but I until now I'd never heard the term as applied to choosing a ski resort/area. Altitude, percent open, kind of terrain, accessibility, lodging types, lift price, and on and on, but never Drought Threat. However, if I can get onto the mountain today I'll keep my eyes open for the dread Drought Threat.

 

[Seldomski]

Aspen offered a 7 day classic pass for 399 this season. Days beyond 7 were 50 percent of the window rate.

When did this go on sale? When did it go off sale? Is this restricted to CO residents?

 

[tball]

You can really learn something scrolling through Pugski, like Drought Threat. I gotta tell ya I've been a skier for many years, but I until now I'd never heard the term as applied to choosing a ski resort/area. Altitude, percent open, kind of terrain, accessibility, lodging types, lift price, and on and on, but never Drought Threat. However, if I can get onto the mountain today I'll keep my eyes open for the dread Drought Threat.

Yep, me too. From Tony Crocker's definitions on his Best Snow Website (hope you are doing well Tony!):

Column seven (first table): Percentage of all winter months (December to March for a minimum of 18 years) with less than 30 inches snowfall. Pay attention again: This shows vulnerability to winter drought and/or low natural snowfall. If you're looking for a powder vacation out west, this figure could be critical. In the Northeast it would be less informative as this percentage will typically be high. The combination of high and low percentages in this and the previous column illustrate volatility of snowfall amounts, but remember the fertile middle ground: For example, Crested Butte gets over 90 inches only six percent of winter months, and under 30 inches 42 percent of winter months. But that means that it gets between 30 and 90 inches during 53 percent of winter months, and that's not bad.
​

So, he defines a drought as a month with less than 30 inches of snow. Not good for powder chasers. But for beginners and intermediates on groomers, the nightly grooming refreshes the surface to nice conditions even if it hasn't snowed in weeks (after a base is in place). The bumps will be rock hard and miserable, though, for more advanced skiers.

Also, 30 inches in a month could mean ten storms of only three inches. That gives fantastic surface conditions for most of the month, but three inches won't make powder chasers happy. That is, for better or worse, the way the snow typically falls at many Colorado areas.