eBike Electric MTB---Wow!

[Tom K.]

So, if I throw a pair of pedals in my fanny pack, can this qualify as an e-bike, because it sure looks like fun!

I thought a little levity might do this thread some good.

 

[fatbob]

Never really been into moto but have to admit seeing this made me reconsider a teeny bit

 

[scott43]

So, if I throw a pair of pedals in my fanny pack, can this qualify as an e-bike, because it sure looks like fun!


I thought a little levity might do this thread some good.

It WAS getting a little uncivil there... So good call.

 

[Mike Thomas]

To clarify what has been assumed about my last post- I have NEVER built illegal trail. I have NEVER built anything on National Forest (there is very little around here that would be viable mtb terrain anyway). I HAVE built 'misty' trail with 100% approval of all landowners, this was on private land, again, with 100% approval of the landowners. A number of people (a few of them full time pro trail builders) call it 'the best trail in the region'... I take a fair amount of pride in hearing that. Most of the hundreds of hours per year I spend working on mtb trails is with the local VMBA chapter, of which I am a member of the trail committee and regularly attend board meetings (which is tough to do when you hate bureacracy as much as I do). I do more than 'm share' to make sure there are trails to ride. I do it because I enjoy it, mostly. I also do it out of a selfish desire for more and better trails for ME to ride.

I don't assume good people like Newfy and his wife would do damage to the trails. I don't assume that meatheads on eMTBs are going to run down hikers. The story about the HS girl with cancer... not assuming she would be a problem. My worry is what Doug Briggs said, people visiting my tourist town, out to have fun, without the fitness or concept of etiquette that could eventually impact the work I've done. That is my ONLY objection to eMTB use.

Mod Edit

 

[fatbob]

I don't assume good people like Newfy and his wife would do damage to the trails. I don't assume that meatheads on eMTBs are going to run down hikers. The story about the HS girl with cancer... not assuming she would be a problem. My worry is what Doug Briggs said, people visiting my tourist town, out to have fun, without the fitness or concept of etiquette that could eventually impact the work I've done. That is my ONLY objection to eMTB use.

But are you coming down on the side that you can't educate or police meathead newbies so it's easier to just ban the tool? There seems to be a bit of extrapolation from you can't trust rental tourists to not misbehave on Snowmobiles or ATVs so you can't trust them on eMTBs. What about if bike shops and rental outfits take it upon themselves to do the education bit and you have a community policy of friendly advice on the trails?

 

[SShore]

But are you coming down on the side that you can't educate or police meathead newbies so it's easier to just ban the tool? There seems to be a bit of extrapolation from you can't trust rental tourists to not misbehave on Snowmobiles or ATVs so you can't trust them on eMTBs. What about if bike shops and rental outfits take it upon themselves to do the education bit and you have a community policy of friendly advice on the trails?

Or Texans and Okies (full disclosure, I'm Sooner born and Sooner bred) from renting ski equipment and running amok on the slopes without having a clue what they are doing (again, guilty as charged). But you know what, a significant number of us loved it and learned and improved and adopted it as a part of our lifestyle. EVERYONE has to start as newb know nothing beginner. I doubt said newb know nothing beginner is going to be any more dangerous to anyone on a pedal assisted ebike than he/she is on a regular MTB. And you know what, it may just allow them to have more fun, fall in love with the sport, learn more, gain more skills and become of more productive member of the MTB community. Stranger things have happened.

 

[scott43]

you have a community policy of friendly advice on the trails?

I don't know about everyone else, but my friendly advice is rarely well received on the trail!

 

[fatbob]

I don't know about everyone else, but my friendly advice is rarely well received on the trail!

Sure if comes wrapped in a "respect mah authoridee" or "I'm not yielding to you because I don't respect your choice of travel" attitude but in a "do you know you'll be XX miles from help if you have a mechanical on that loop" or "there's a really tricky/dangerous downhill down there; that way is easier and still a lot of fun"

 

[scott43]

Sure if comes wrapped in a "respect mah authoridee" or "I'm not yielding to you because I don't respect your choice of travel" attitude but in a "do you know you'll be XX miles from help if you have a mechanical on that loop" or "there's a really tricky/dangerous downhill down there; that way is easier and still a lot of fun"

Doesn't matter..it's always STFU and then MYOB...

 

[Philpug]

I had a chance to take a Cannondale Moterra past just a parking lot test and onto a little bit of singletrack and even some climbs. I can see both sides of the argument discussion more and more. These really are unfair with their ability to climb, like bringing a gun to a knife fight. I haven't been on a bike really in over a year, therefore I am no where near riding shape that I could/should be in. On my initial climb that there is no way I could have made on a traditional bike, I am really not sure I could/should have made it and if I did, I would have been sucking wind at the top, on the Cannondale, I made it up easily and bearly was even breathing hard. To me thats a big win. Did I disrupt a rock or spin dirt like I would have on a motorcycle? No. Did I go any faster on the flat that I would have on a regualr bike? maybe a bit. Did I go any faster down back the hill? Nope, I am a slow rider. Did I enjoy myself? Hell yeah. Does an E-bike give me the desire to start riding again? It is rekindling the flame for sure. Will I get judged for considering or eventually getting one? I am sure I will. Will that bother me? I will not lose any sleep over it.

The question/point has come up regaring inexperienced riders getting in over their head. I will look at this from another perspective. How often does an inexperienced rider "think" he/she can go out and do a 10,15, 20 miler only to realize half way through they either don't have enough water, food, thus energy to complete the ride and have a tremendous amount of difficulty completing the ride? Well, I think this is just as much of, if not more of an issue as a rider getting in over their head by being over terrained. That over terrained rider, will tend to walk their bike anyway.

I see the pendulum swinging on these bikes and the perception along with it. Currently we are seeing a good amount of assist with the electric systems that comes at the cost of weight. I see the weights coming down and with that the need for less assist and with that a bit more acceptance from the purists. Where will the line eventually be drawn to what trails these will be allowed on, that also remains to be seen. I do see these as a viable option to get more people out doors and playing with tools that meet their needs. I for one will not be judging them...as long as they follow "Rule 1", but I have also found that person who violates "Rule 1", would probably be violating it on any bike.

 

[Brian Likes Pow]

I feel like the more people that get outside the better. Ill wait out the coming years, let the tech refine, price drop and see if these become more accepted. Should that all happen then you can bet ill be riding one of these. ...especially as I age. Sure would be nice on the tahoe sufferfest climbs!

 

[4ster]

The first time I ever saw or heard of an electric bike was about 3 or 4 years ago when I went for a ride after skiing with some friends. Owen, who was 5 or 6yo joined us on his electric motorcycle, I was skeptical. No way he could have joined us & kept up on a traditional bike, instead he was waiting.

I immediately thought how cool it was that he could come with the big kids.

Last summer when I first began getting passed by pedal assisted e-bikes I was pissed! My initial impression was similar to that of @Doug Briggs, that now we are gonna have a bunch of ignorant folks getting out too far &/or in over their heads. I still believe this may be the case.

I held off on joining this thread because I truly had mixed feelings about the advent of these bikes & I still do. As I get older I wonder if there may be an E bike in my future. The problem is that my friend Joe is 81 years old and still pedals many of the trails the younger guys are on.

How can I justify an E bike, when Joe doesn't have one?

For now, I will make no judgments and just wait and see how things play out.

 

[scott43]

Its' a lot of effort to walk to the coffee shop..start now Costanza..

 

[Philpug]

My initial impression was similar to that of @Doug Briggs, that now we are gonna have a bunch of ignorant folks getting out too far &/or in over their heads. I still believe this may be the case.

My reply to that is this...

The question/point has come up regaring inexperienced riders getting in over their head. I will look at this from another perspective. How often does an inexperienced rider "think" he/she can go out and do a 10,15, 20 miler only to realize half way through they either don't have enough water, food, thus energy to complete the ride and have a tremendous amount of difficulty completing the ride? Well, I think this is just as much of, if not more of an issue as a rider getting in over their head by being over terrained. That over terrained rider, will tend to walk their bike anyway.

 

[Tom K.]

OK, I'm still not sure there is much long term point in trying to stop this speeding freight train, but I'll go ahead an offer up rule number one for e-bikes:

1. When climbing a single track trail, an e-bike rider may not -- EVER -- demand to pass somebody who is earning their turns the old fashioned way.

They may, of course, ask politely to pass.

 

[Monique]

OK, I'm still not sure there is much long term point in trying to stop this speeding freight train, but I'll go ahead an offer up rule number one for e-bikes:

1. When climbing a single track trail, an e-bike rider may not -- EVER -- demand to pass somebody who is earning their turns the old fashioned way.

They may, of course, ask politely to pass.

That's ... how it works for everyone. Not just for e-bikes.

 

[Tom K.]

That's ... how it works for everyone. Not just for e-bikes.

I guess you missed the tongue in cheek intention...I must need to use more emojis!

 

[Erik Timmerman]

The first time I ever saw or heard of an electric bike was about 3 or 4 years ago when I went for a ride after skiing with some friends. Owen, who was 5 or 6yo joined us on his electric motorcycle, I was skeptical. No way he could have joined us & kept up on a traditional bike, instead he was waiting.
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So at what age does Owen start riding a bike with pedals? Why would we expect that he will see this as a gateway to mountain biking? It seems to me that when he has a bike with pedals he's going to suddenly be unable to do all of the things that he could do on his motorcycle. Is this really something that lets people mountain bike together? He is NOT mountain biking.

Our club (I am on the board) has had discussions about banning E-bikes on the trails we manage. To this point, I have been one of the few that does not think we should be regulating this. I have to say that the more I read the justifications that people come up with in this thread the less I support E-bikes.

 

[Rod9301]

My buddy is a cop in downtown Toronto..the regular beat cop guys don't even bother with e-bikes. They literally ignore them unless they actually cause an accident. They've basically been given every exception to the Highway Traffic Act. Apparently the traffic cops know the rules and will sometimes ticket them. I sit and look out my window at work and watch people cruise down the sidewalk at 20mph and think, that's not right. But what to do? You don't require a license (we call them DUI cycles..), you don't have to know the rules of the road, you can ride wherever the f* you feel like, you don't need insurance so if you hit someone, tough luck. I don't know what to say other than we're certainly not in front of the problem...

As for off-road, if I'm grinding up a hill and you have power assist and want trail right of way, go f* yourself!

I wonder how long it will take you to buy an extra mountain bike.

 

[Rod9301]

[QUOTE="]

Two friends that ride really well in tech stuff tried e-bikes and reported that the sudden surge of power, and more so the abrupt cessation of power, made for a lousy experience.

I don't know if the difference is technique, or the smoothness of the Shimano system, but we ride technical stuff better, and often slower than on an old bike. With a bit of extra torque, you can take your time, look at a feature, and go over it, whereas without the assist, you need to bash in with some momentum.[/QUOTE]
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