eBike Electric MTB -- Wow! Philpug's Version

[jmeb]

OK time to let the cat out of the bag.

Here's our law on electrically assisted pedal cycles

https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

Simple. Not really heard of anyone up in arms about it.

If you don't define them as motorised vehicles in the first place you don't box yourself in.

To clarify for those who don't know: the UK and EU have different manufacturing requirements around the amount of power ebikes can have. The ebikes reference here have lower power thresholds than even Class 1 ebikes in the US like the type reviewed here.

(And @Philpug -- totally support breaking off this ebike debate into its own thread rather than polluting your review.)

 

[Philpug]

To clarify for those who don't know: the UK and EU have different manufacturing requirements around the amount of power ebikes can have. The ebikes reference here have lower power thresholds than even Class 1 ebikes in the US like the type reviewed here.

(And @Philpug -- totally support breaking off this ebike debate into its own thread rather than polluting your review.)

We have been discussing it. IMHO, poluting is the wrong word, but it is a thread drift for sure.

 

[skibob]

I firmly believe that the vast majority of resistance is about believing there is a difference between motorized recreation and non-motorized recreation.

Luckily, our beliefs are just our beliefs. And there are thousands more people out there with equally valid opinions.

It is part powering the pedal cycle. See I'm not playing your game - there are different ways of thinking about it.

Even in the UK - Northern Ireland laws are peversely completely different and require licensing and full motorbike crash helmets. But that's what you get with a local government run by partisan religious fringes.

" . . . and was an excellent example of the fact that we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language."
--Oscar Wilde

 

[RachelV]

... If you look at what many (myself included here) are advocating, it is not that eBikes get lumped in with all other motorized vehicles. It is that -- just like they shouldn't get lumped in with human-powered vehicles, they shouldn't get lumped in with dirtbikes/atvs/etc. ...

I think this is the crux of this thread... I personally think a class 1 emtb is way more like a bike than a dirtbike.

 

[newfydog]

Having a motor negates that challenge that is integral to mountain biking. It's not mountain biking with a motor. .

You seem hung up on that challenge thing. Well, here's a challenge for you: Come out and go for a ride with me on my second ebike before I take it to Europe.. We'll do three or four hard hours of mixed double and single track, all legal, and way out where we'll be lucky if see another person., We'll clean some hard climbs, have to push and carry some others. Descents will be sane, no one wants to get hurt out there, but on some of the rollers we'll get some air. Afterwards, see if you think it wasn't mountain biking, and wasn't challenging.

 

[Tom K.]

Here's an interesting point:

One my personal favorite mtb meccas, Moab, firmly prohibits e-bikes on trails.

Not sure what I think about this absolute ban, but it does exist.

 

[Philpug]

Here's an interesting point:

One my personal favorite mtb meccas, Moab, firmly prohibits e-bikes on trails.

Not sure what I think about this absolute ban, but it does exist.

Here are the areas where e-bikes are allowed: https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/BLMUtahEbikeOpportunities.pdf

 

[Ken_R]

My ride today was perfect for an E-Bike. There was a LOT of climbing but mostly smooth singletrack and some dbltrack mixed in. So not much techy terrain at all (only one section really on the SE side of the loop)

...oh it was this: https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/31804/centennial-cone

 

[Philpug]

I just had a chance today to spend some time on a Cannondale Bad Habit 4. I will say it is a nice bike for the price point it had the bells and whistles I would want and or need, One-by, Dropper, 27.5+ an I could get good deal on one. It is everything I should want. Here is the "but"..it will sit in the garage and I won't ride it. Well, I might ride it for a couple of weeks but when push comes to shove, where the Moterra (or other E-bike here) is a bike I will look for a reason to ride, this bike I will come up with reasons not to ride. I know I am out of shape, but I don't think that I am that out of shape that I could not ride to the trail head and be this winded. I was more winded/worked in that short ride than I was in my whole e-bike ride that I actually had fun on. I don't feel that the Moterra did that much work of the ride that I was on but I was ginning ear to ear. If this isn't mountain biking by some standards, sorry, this is getting me out riding, I am getting dirty and sweaty and giggling. My next bike will be an e-bike.

 

[Eleeski]

My next bike will be an e-bike.

Mine won't. I respect your desire for an ebike. For your mission, I'd probably want an ebike too.

My dirt riding is on my 800 acres of desert land. My mountain bike rides to check the property double as my exercise. I could drive - actually the Focus truck doesn't have enough ground clearance for some of the spots so maybe I can't. But if I go motored I'll get some kind of dirt bike (an enduro for the road as well?). Still pedal for the exercise and surveillance when I can.

Too many fun options. Enjoy your choices.

Eric

 

[Ken_R]

I just had a chance today to spend some time on a Cannondale Bad Habit 4. I will say it is a nice bike for the price point it had the bells and whistles I would want and or need, One-by, Dropper, 27.5+ an I could get good deal on one. It is everything I should want. Here is the "but"..it will sit in the garage and I won't ride it. Well, I might ride it for a couple of weeks but when push comes to shove, where the Moterra (or other E-bike here) is a bike I will look for a reason to ride, this bike I will come up with reasons not to ride. I know I am out of shape, but I don't think that I am that out of shape that I could not ride to the trail head and be this winded. I was more winded/worked in that short ride than I was in my whole e-bike ride that I actually had fun on. I don't feel that the Moterra did that much work of the ride that I was on but I was ginning ear to ear. If this isn't mountain biking by some standards, sorry, this is getting me out riding, I am getting dirty and sweaty and giggling. My next bike will be an e-bike.

I totally get what your are saying. The first one will be for my wife so she can ride with me. The next one for me. If I want to work out I can always turn the assist off.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I was more winded/worked in that short ride than I was in my whole e-bike ride that I actually had fun on. I don't feel that the Moterra did that much work of the ride that I was on

Kinda sounds like it was. If that's what makes you grin, then go for it

As far as our local trails, I am still against having any policy at all for or against. I think that a ban or approval both invite trouble. I don't think these are going to be that huge of a deal simply due to cost. I mean "e-bikers" (is that a user group now?) are not avid mountain bikers, so will they really shell out 4 or 5K for a sport they aren't that into? I'm not sure I see it. At the same time, it's going to get to the point where if you don't have an IR camera and an EM field detector you won't know which bikes are e-bikes, so how do you enforce anything anyway? It still isn't mountain biking though.

 

[Philpug]

I totally get what your are saying. The first one will be for my wife so she can ride with me. The next one for me. If I want to work out I can always turn the assist off.

I am not sure you will be turning the assist off too much other than on the descents and maybe some of the flats that will be to save power, a 50lb bike is a lot to pedal and will be uhmmm sluggish and a lot of work. It is interesting, one of the comparision videos they tester was talking about the extra weight and how he actually liked it on the descents, he felt it gave him more control and the bike felt more planted to him. It was to the point that he was questioning the Nth degree concern in getting the regular bikes as light as he could. I am not sure that where that ideal weight will end up and quite frankly where peoples price threshold is here in the U.S. to get the weight down under 40lb because there is a co$t in adding lightness. I will go back to @tball's and @Eleeski's earlier concerns and questions, do we need the power output these are putting out if we can get them lighter? The Pivot Shuttle is on the low 40's for weight with the Shimano Step System but that is with a carbon frame and a price tag of $10K. I know there are a few $10K bikes amongst the members here, @Ron selling a hard tail that had that for an original price so a $10K bike while uncommon are not non existance.

 

[Philpug]

Kinda sounds like it was. If that's what makes you grin, then go for it

As far as our local trails, I am still against having any policy at all for or against. I think that a ban or approval both invite trouble. I don't think these are going to be that huge of a deal simply due to cost. I mean "e-bikers" (is that a user group now?) are not avid mountain bikers, so will they really shell out 4 or 5K for a sport they aren't that into? I'm not sure I see it. At the same time, it's going to get to the point where if you don't have an IR camera and an EM field detector you won't know which bikes are e-bikes, so how do you enforce anything anyway? It still isn't mountain biking though.

It is going to be tough. I will fully admit, I am not a mountain biker but I am someone who enjoys mountain biking. and quite frankly I am not alone here. There are people on the site that enjoy skiing yet are not skiers, I think we do a pretty good job of accepting them at their level and not judge them...and many of them spend that $4-5K on just skis. Do we say what they do is not skiing? As to what is or isn't mountain biking, I am not sure there is a clear definition of that.

 

[newfydog]

. My mountain bike rides to check the property double as my exercise.Still pedal for the exercise and surveillance when I can.

Eric

If your ride distance remains the same, true, you'll get more exercise on a bike with no assist. If your ride time remains the same, you'll be able to cover more ground and get pretty much the same exercise.

 

[Tom K.]

The new bike silly season is getting in gear, and this just dropped:

https://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/electric/product/trek-powerfly-lt-9-review-52074/

I'm not shopping for an e-bike -- at least yet -- but this thing looks like the bomb.

 

[skibob]

I don't feel that the Moterra did that much work of the ride that I was on but I was ginning ear to ear. If this isn't mountain biking by some standards, sorry, this is getting me out riding, I am getting dirty and sweaty and giggling. My next bike will be an e-bike.

If you don't like the Juniper burps, try vodka next time.

 

[newfydog]

Here is an interesting perspective:

 

[Seldomski]

Here is an interesting perspective:

View attachment 48227

Yeah, batteries are horrid at storing energy compared to gas. Especially when there is free oxygen available.

 

[LouD-Truckee]