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tball

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Curious which part didn't look like mountain biking?

Pretty much every part going uphill. How about this to start:

screen-shot-2019-05-25-at-9-18-11-am-png.74615



Much of that video is mocking traditional mountain biking. That's OK?

Listen to them laugh at the guys climbing without motors here:

Electric_MTBl.jpg


There's much more. Just watch the video. Every time they are going uphill they are demonstrating how it's a different sport, often doing so with a mocking tone.
 

Jersey Skier

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I don't see the difference between that and two really fit racers blowing past some regular recreational MTB'ers. I've been passed by and ridden with pros, we might as well call that a different sport, because it's the same difference. The speed they can climb doesn't seem human to most.
 

Tom K.

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The whole "make the uphill nearly as fun as the downhill" while still getting all the workout you desire, is the siren song that may lure me to the darkside sooner, rather than later!
 

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I don't see the difference between that and two really fit racers blowing past some regular recreational MTB'ers. I've been passed by and ridden with pros, we might as well call that a different sport, because it's the same difference. The speed they can climb doesn't seem human to most.
The 750 watts of an e-bike is more than double the power of the best pro cyclists.

The power output of pro cyclists is closely held, but Jens Voigt made his available for a stage of the USA Pro Challenge he won over Independence Pass:
https://decaironman-training.com/2013/12/09/powerlevels-ftp-pros-vs-humans/

He put out 328 watts over almost four hours and 370 watts over 52 minutes. Absolutely amazing and just inhuman.

Why does an e-bike have 750 watts when Jens Voigt couldn't put out half that?
 
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Jersey Skier

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The 750 watts of an e-bike is more than double the power of the best pro cyclists.

The power output of pro cyclists is closely held, but Jens Voigt made his available for a stage of the USA Pro Challenge he won over Independence Pass:
https://decaironman-training.com/2013/12/09/powerlevels-ftp-pros-vs-humans/

He put out 328 watts over almost four hours and 370 watts over 52 minutes. Absolutely amazing and just inhuman.

Why does an e-bike have 750 watts when Jens Voigt couldn't put out half that?


Not sure if you’ve ridden one, but most might peak at 750, but they won’t hold that power. Since it amplifies your pedaling power my Turbo Levo might hit 750 for a short burst every few rides. Typically if I’m pedaling along at 100w the total output of me and the bike is still sub 300w. It only reaches peak power on the steepest of climbs where I would normally have exploded and put my foot down. So, yes it’s cheating on those climbs if that’s what bothers you. But, I’m still moving at less than 5mph in those situations so not a safety issue for anyone.
 

newfydog

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The 750 watts of an e-bike is more than double the power of the best pro cyclists.

Why does an e-bike have 750 watts when Jens Voigt couldn't put out half that?

Good grief, these arguments are still going on?

A pro cyclist may not hold 750 watts for hours, but every one of them can do it. Andre Greipel sprints at 1,900 watts.

My wife was once out on three hour MTB ride and was passed by friend, a pro racer. A couple of hours later he came by again, lapping her. Same sport, different people.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We just celebrated her 70th birthday with a 1,400 km mtb ride through the wilds of France, on an ebike. Speeds and distances were faster than last year on our other bikes, but similar to what we did 18 years ago when we rode some of the same route.

Where we were definitely faster were the parts which are not much fun--- things too steep for a loaded bike, false flats, headwinds on the road, busy traffic on the road. The typical mtb sections were very much the same as on a regular bike.

I'm sorting the photos and will post a report. You can tell me it is a different sport until you are blue in the face, but you still will be spouting hypothetical crap. In real life, it wasn't much different from any of the other rides we've been doing since the mtb was invented. And we're still at it as the years go by.

bordeaux.JPG
 

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Good grief, these arguments are still going on?
Most certainly these arguments are still going on. There are strong opinions on both sides.

Are you aware that e-MTBs are not currently allowed on non-motorized trails by the USFS, BLM, and many (if not most) local land management agencies?

There is an ongoing conversation as to the appropriate use and regulation of e-bikes on non-motorized trails. I hope this forum is open to discussion representing both sides of the issue.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Most certainly these arguments are still going on. There are strong opinions on both sides.

Are you aware that e-MTBs are not currently allowed on non-motorized trails by the USFS, BLM, and many (if not most) local land management agencies?

There is an ongoing conversation as to the appropriate use and regulation of e-bikes on non-motorized trails. I hope this forum is open to discussion representing both sides of the issue.

Vermont's Forest Park and Rec has now banned eBikes on land that they manage.
 

Philpug

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Most certainly these arguments are still going on. There are strong opinions on both sides.

Are you aware that e-MTBs are not currently allowed on non-motorized trails by the USFS, BLM, and many (if not most) local land management agencies?

There is an ongoing conversation as to the appropriate use and regulation of e-bikes on non-motorized trails. I hope this forum is open to discussion representing both sides of the issue.

As long as it stays civil and people don't soap box it is a debate that can continue.

Vermont's Forest Park and Rec has now banned eBikes on land that they manage.

And we are seeing more areas opening up out here.
 

Tom K.

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Are you aware that e-MTBs are not currently allowed on non-motorized trails by the USFS, BLM, and many (if not most) local land management agencies?

This is a crucial topic to me. Our little county of Hood River, Oregon has a HUGE network of trails. Some bike-only, and some also OK for motorized use.

The County has just decided that e-bikes are OK on all the trails.

Every other trail network in the vicinity does NOT allow e-bikes.

Given that the Portland metro area is 1) an hour away, and 2) has virtually none of its own mtb trails, and 3) has 2.35 million people, we are worried that the e-bike mtb "crush" is now coming our way, because we're the only game in town, so to speak.

Time will tell.
 

Jersey Skier

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This is a crucial topic to me. Our little county of Hood River, Oregon has a HUGE network of trails. Some bike-only, and some also OK for motorized use.

The County has just decided that e-bikes are OK on all the trails.

Every other trail network in the vicinity does NOT allow e-bikes.

Given that the Portland metro area is 1) an hour away, and 2) has virtually none of its own mtb trails, and 3) has 2.35 million people, we are worried that the e-bike mtb "crush" is now coming our way, because we're the only game in town, so to speak.

Time will tell.

The whole “too many riders on our trails “ argument I totally understand, but the reality is that more riders will be better for the sport in general.
 

newfydog

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The French have a law very similar to our House Rule 727 which states:

"a low-speed electric bicycle ..... shall not be considered a motor vehicle" ...."
This section shall supersede any State law or requirement"

Here, some agencies want to interpret our federal law as only applying to sales and make their own rules. In France the bikes are legal everywhere a bike is permitted and it is working well. We rode on remote single tracks most used by hikers, long distance bike paths by the ocean, city bike routes etc. Every one of those trails are closed to motor vehicles. Every biker, hiker, pedestrian we met greeted us warmly. Ebikes are integrating just fine.

eb1.JPG


bf4.JPG


bf8.JPG
bf5.JPG
bf7.JPG

bf3.JPG
 

James

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Montreal allows escooters to use the bike paths. At least as of last fall. What fun that was, not having to worry about cars and blasting at 45 mph when space. In the end though, they didn't have enough longevity. We drained them basically in an hour, and barely made it back.
These were cool little motorcylcle style bikes.
IMG_6518.jpg

Then we switched to 50cc Hondas. Not nearly the acceleration, but overall much better and runs forever. You could tour the whole city and not worry about getting stuck. Also vastly cheaper. I think 1 day is 1 hour on the escooter. I highly recommend them from Montreal Scooter near the start of the Lachine canal in the old port section.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Given that the Portland metro area is 1) an hour away, and 2) has virtually none of its own mtb trails, and 3) has 2.35 million people, we are worried that the e-bike mtb "crush" is now coming our way, because we're the only game in town, so to speak.

Time will tell.

Since it is nearly unenforceable, you probably don't need to worry too much about them being shunted into a single trail system. Who is really going to stop them from riding wherever they want?
 
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Mike Thomas

Mike Thomas

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Since it is nearly unenforceable, you probably don't need to worry too much about them being shunted into a single trail system. Who is really going to stop them from riding wherever they want?

Well, if you ban ALL bicycle shaped objects you make enforcement pretty easy.
 

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