Efficiency of Flat vs Clipless Pedals

[cantunamunch]

Thanks for posting the results.

Do you suppose your right leg, being stronger in the primary mode, is therefore less recruited during normal pedaling?

 

[Mike Thomas]

Realistically I don't think there's any discussion needed if it's about performance. If there would be question, we would see, if not roadies, then at least mtb guys running flats. But even in DH, when tracks require just a bit of pedaling, most of guys put clipless pedals on, and I don't think we ever saw any racer on XC/XCM race with flats

Sam Hill, the reigning EWS World Champion and currently dominating this season EWS Series says "hi". Enduro racing is more closely approximates what 'mountain bikers' do when out riding with friends than either XC or DH. Siting what WC Xc riders use is no more telling for mtg than talking about what WC SL skiers use... It just doesn't apply to 90% of people. I use clipless, I think many folks opposed to clipless are silly... but flats are as popular as they are for a reason and there is VERY little loss in performance for the non-XC racer. In fact, they allow for many performance enhancing techniques that clippers do not allow. You can't effectively add 'edging force' while turning on clipless, you'll just unclip if you try to transmit force to the pedals that isn't inline with the pedal.

 

[scott43]

Enduro racing is more closely approximates what 'mountain bikers' do when out riding with friends than either XC or DH.

Meh...dunno about that..all the riding I do..and most people I imagine, involves 50% up and 50% down..not 10% up and 90% down. Not arguing the whole pedal thing..just that unless you're doing lift-served riding, you're doing equal up and down!

 

[Monique]

Meh...dunno about that..all the riding I do..and most people I imagine, involves 50% up and 50% down..not 10% up and 90% down. Not arguing the whole pedal thing..just that unless you're doing lift-served riding, you're doing equal up and down!

Er, I don't think Enduro is lift-serviced. But according to Wikipedia, they're only timed for descent.

 

[Tony S]

You can't effectively add 'edging force' while turning on clipless, you'll just unclip if you try to transmit force to the pedals that isn't inline with the pedal.

Really good point. I hadn't thought about this.

Enduro racing is more closely approximates what 'mountain bikers' do when out riding with friends than either XC or DH. Siting what WC Xc riders use is no more telling for mtg than talking about what WC SL skiers use... It just doesn't apply to 90% of people.

Meh...dunno about that..all the riding I do..and most people I imagine, involves 50% up and 50% down..not 10% up and 90% down. Not arguing the whole pedal thing..just that unless you're doing lift-served riding, you're doing equal up and down!

I'm with Scott. I think what XC racers do applies more to me than what Enduro riders do, even though my actual racing is limited to once or twice a year.

 

[Ron]

near 50/50 here too. I like to climb. But Mikes comments about working the pedals is true.. I do miss the ability for lifting the rear tire and bunny hopping when going over obstacles most but I understand a skilled flat rider can do this.

 

[Monique]

I do miss the ability for lifting the rear tire and bunny hopping when going over obstacles most but I understand a skilled flat rider can do this.

I have done this within the controlled environs of a clinic. Timing it on the trail is another story entirely!

 

[Wendy]

Thanks for posting the results.

Do you suppose your right leg, being stronger in the primary mode, is therefore less recruited during normal pedaling?

Definitely could be the case. I’m going to have to go out and do this a lot more to acquire more feedback.

 

[Mike Thomas]

10% up and 90% down? I want to ride there. I have no earthly idea what you are trying to describe, it sure isn't EWS racing... but it sounds heavenly.

 

[Crank]

I like my clipless. Can't imagine riding my mtb around here without. Maybe on a smooth trail without logs and rocks?

On my road bike I have pedals that are flats on one side and clipless on the other which I both like and think is a PITA at the same time.

 

[Josh Matta]

near 50/50 here too. I like to climb. But Mikes comments about working the pedals is true.. I do miss the ability for lifting the rear tire and bunny hopping when going over obstacles most but I understand a skilled flat rider can do this.

these are EASY flat pedal skills.

The things that are impossible unless your going to track hop, a skill that very few people have well(I considered my track hops pretty good, I can stand in place, go backwards forwards, and rotate in place both way, clipped in BTW), is climbing really technical trails. I always hear flat pedal riders say no problem, an then they have to get off and walk all the time.

The thing is despite all these supposely scientific test saying flats are better or nearly the same for efficiency, no pro road riders, XC, or CX riders are using flats, and very few enduro riders are. if flats were better more people would be using them.

I would stop trying to justify your pedal usage, if you like flats because you are unable to unclip due the way your body is, or unwilling to learn to unclip, then keep using them, but considering the vast majority of adult MTB rec rider ride somewhere in between XC and enduro but really just for fun, clips are better, but its doesnt matter, its not a competition.

If people want to get more comfortable on clips, go to some grass and practice tracks stands and track hops.

https://www.facebook.com/josh.matta.7 there is a facebook video I just posted that do to being a facebook video I can not link should be public. that shows a ton of people riding trials on clipless pedals. these situation are much harder than 99 percent of the people will encounter, well unless you live in Davis, Wv.

 

[Tricia]

https://www.facebook.com/josh.matta.7 there is a facebook video I just posted that do to being a facebook video I can not link should be public. that shows a ton of people riding trials on clipless pedals. these situation are much harder than 99 percent of the people will encounter, well unless you live in Davis, Wv.

You can embed FB Videos here.
Those Trials guys/and gals, are amazing.

 

[Primoz]

Enduro racing is more closely approximates what 'mountain bikers' do when out riding with friends than either XC or DH. Siting what WC Xc riders use is no more telling for mtg than talking about what WC SL skiers use... It just doesn't apply to 90% of people.

As far as enduro goes, if I know right, I admit I can be wrong, timing their runs is on downhill sections only, so basically it's DH race, with easier and longer course consists out of several sections, and with exception you need to come to start with your own power and not with lift like it's normal with most of DH races. So uphill/flat efficiency of pedaling doesn't really matter.
To what most people ride, I would still say most of riding would fit into (easy) XC or not even that if you look what sort of track xc guys are running today. With all the rock gardens in WC XC races, technical complexity of average WC XC race would probably be higher then DH race some 15-20 years ago, and I would dare to bet majority of people ride trail/am/enduro for fun, would have serious issues getting down some xc downhill sections on their trail/am/enduro bikes

 

[Philpug]

The thing is despite all these supposely scientific test saying flats are better or nearly the same for efficiency, no pro road riders, XC, or CX riders are using flats, and very few enduro riders are. if flats were better more people would be using them.

I think it is pretty obvious that being clipped in with a clipless pedal, that sounds strange, is indeed more efficient. But..do the vast majority of the trail ri riders need that level of efficiency? Probably not. Road biking, a different topic. With that said, I absolutely think more and more people are using flats. Where as in the past, the vast majority of the people at the trail heads were on Clipless, I would say it is about 50/50 +/- 10% either way that you see both. In the past rarely would you see someone moderatly serious on rat traps...and very few with toe clips.

As far as my use, I was 100% confident with clipless, it was second nature and I don't recall the last time I fell over. PErsonally, I felt absolutely no need to migrate to flats..unitl I spend a day with them. It was like getting on a modern ski, yes i miss some of the length of the traditional ski but the pluses, for me, far out weighed the Nth degree of efficiency loss.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

As fas ar enduro goes, I am racing an enduro tomorrow. It has 4 stages and we will ride the lift once. Pedaling efficiency does matter because if I am blown at the top before my stage starts, I am not going to go as fast. Also, on some of these stages you are pedaling your ass off. There will be a lot of riders on flats. I'd guess 50/50. Efficiency matters sure, but in this case, I think it's more about a bike that isn't a total pig and tires that roll sort of OK, and not about that last percent your of pedaling efficiency. That said, for me, I know I will charge way harder with the security of clipless than I ever could with the chance of my feet being blown off of a pair of flats.

 

[Monique]

I would stop trying to justify your pedal usage, if you like flats because you are unable to unclip due the way your body is, or unwilling to learn to unclip, then keep using them, but considering the vast majority of adult MTB rec rider ride somewhere in between XC and enduro but really just for fun, clips are better, but its doesnt matter, its not a competition.

I don't think your post supports your argument. Yeah, I walk sections on flats - but I walked them in clipless, too. I suspect that when you see people walking the technical sections with flats, you have not had the opportunity to see them approach the same section with clipless.

I agree that it doesn't matter, though Typical summertime thread. We have to have something to jaw about!

 

[john petersen]

I have become a big fan of clipless pedals...after mountain biking without them, feet coming off the pedals, getting pedal slam and scrape on my legs, and getting the gentleman's vegetables introduced to the bike frame at speed helped me make the decision to switch to clipless. it did take a few days to feel comfortable with them and not feel locked in (they pop right out if you need them to ). I cannot ride without them now.

Tell me more! Ever since my ACL surgery, my "dominant" side's quad has been significantly smaller than my supposedly non-dominant side. I just can't get the dominant quad to recruit fully.

with clipless, Monique, you can train one side or the other to your heart's content! with clipless you can pull up on the pedal just as hard as you push forward or down.

Over roots and rocks and slippery stuff, your feet stay where they are supposed to adding to your confidence the longer you ride with them....

JP

 

[scott43]

the gentleman's vegetables

JP

Harnk....gentleman's vegetables...

 

[Carl Kuck]

From the unrepentant roadie / old guy perspective, especially riding along the coast in San Diego, I like the ability to eject out of either or both pedals without having to reach down and loosen a strap while being on the brakes as semi-emergency stops can be quite handy.

 

[Superbman]

I've become a fan of a best of both combination:
I am using a clipless shoe with a sole designed to be used on wider, pinned lipless pedals. Right now I'm using the Giro Chamber (absolute best shoe I've ever used) with the new Shimasno Saint Clipless pedals. I have a lot of comfort and contact with the pedal (for extra steering and control) and the security of being clipped in. I use this for DH and trail riding. I love it.