Edge damage and repair; one example (aka my first edge replacement)

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by Doug Briggs, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    I work at a shop in Breckenridge. As you know, our snow pack is kind of thin so I've been getting to do a lot of repair work. Mostly core shots that are easy to fix with MetalGrip and P-Tex.

    This Armada came in earlier this week.
    20180116_173325_South Main Street.jpg

    I removed some of the base material using a patch pattern and utility knife. The construction of the ski was layered in such a was as to make the use of a patch later dubious. I needed top open up the ski to see how extensive the damage was to the core and to provide clean, unaffected material to work with. Note the mud and road debris on the ski. The edges were rusty. As was said elsewhere 'we aren't a car wash'.(Would you go to a doctor's appointment covered in grime from a workout?) I didn't clean the ski before cutting as I wanted to avoid possibly moistening the core, etc. which would hinder adhesive bonding.
    20180116_174851_Lincoln Avenue.jpg

    I cut out a part of the edge using a dremel. I angled the cuts so that the replacement piece wouldn't be able to pull out through the opening in the original edges. It is more obvious in other photos. Here I've laid the edge in and epoxied it. There was space below the replacement piece so the edge was in the epoxy top, bottom and base side. I used screws to hold it in place, but the core was so wimpy and spongy, I removed them as they weren't providing and strength and were just going to be in the way of the remaining repair. I had deliberately roughed up the core and exposed innards of the ski to permit the epoxy to flow into nooks and crannies for a mechanical connection as well as to hopefully reinforce the core. I also used a Dremel abrasive cone to remove epoxy once it had set to make room for the MetalGrip and P-Tex. When the ski came in you could push things around, there was not firmness to the damaged area.
    20180116_224813_Lincoln Avenue.jpg

    Here you can sort of see the void between the top of the edge and the sidewall that filled with epoxy. The replacement edge was coated black. I did also fix the delamination between the topsheet and the ski, but that was a minor and pretty obvious process.
    20180116_224846_North Ridge Street.jpg

    I then used a panser file to rough match the replacement edge to the original. I had set the edge in place so it was a little bold compared to the original edge. This let me remove material from the replacement edge so that it would be flush on both side and base portions of the edge.

    MetalGrip applied. This stuff is pretty cool. You apply it with a soldering iron in a thin layer to form a layer that bonds to the ski and edge (hence the name) and bonds to P-Tex nicely. Here you can see the slant of the cuts in the original and replacement edge.
    20180117_161157.jpg

    I then P-Texed using a gun. I eschewed a patch as the space I had to work with was very thin and irregular. I didn't think I'd get a good bond and the removal of all the excess material (thickness) was going to be dicey. I applied on excess P-Tex, scraped it close to level with a sharp cabinet scraper (metal scraper), then I put the ski through the belt sander. This is the result at this point.
    20180117_172559.jpg

    This shows the repair after the TrimJet edging and base stone grinding.
    20180117_204411_North Ridge Street.jpg

    Any critique would be appreciated. I'll start:
    • better fit between the original and replacement edge; less gap. as it is, epoxy filled any void and made for a smooth transition between new and old edge.
    • let the edge match inside edge, not the outside. that means more edge material to remove, but a cleaner, single straight line on the inside edge which would have made a patch easier to make, if I'd gone the route of a patch.
    I can make no guarantee about the durability of the repair, but I think it is pretty solid and will hold as an outside edge. If the core had more substantial structure to hold screws, that would make it more solid.

    Edit: I am particularly interested to hear from people about if and how I could have strengthened the core. Putting screws through the edge into the core that close to the edge and having it hold is a challenge even with a solid, healthy core.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
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  2. tch

    tch What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet. Skier

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    I'd say pretty d*mn good, since I would have considered the ski trash when it came in if'n it'd been me.
    I wouldn't want to ski the repair on the inside edge, but, as you say, it'll probably be fine as the outside edge.
    Nice!
     
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  3. Monique

    Monique bounceswoosh Skier

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    I love reading your repair write-ups, even though the most I've done is wax my skis. It's just so *interesting*.

    I have questions! How does the cost of the repair/labor compare to just replacing the skis (presumably bindings could be transferred)? If they were your skis, would you have repaired them? (I'm guessing yes, given the repair I remember last season)? Aside from dirtiness, did the skis seem well cared for in general? If not, did that play into your decision to agree to repair? And finally, did you tell the skier to use it on one side only?
     
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  4. focker

    focker Getting on the lift Skier

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    How much did that repair cost if you are allowed to say? That seems like a lot of work and likely money.
     
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  5. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    I was also wondering about the cost relative to a used pair of Armadas.. Also, were they jibber skis likely to be slamming rails and boxes next week??
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Thanks @Monique and @tch .

    The repair cost $80. He also had minor damage on the corresponding edge on the other ski; right edge of both ski as though he hit something with the inside and outside edge simultaneously. The other repair was $20. He got a full tune as well so the entire bill was $150.

    My POV was that if he brought it in for repair, he likely liked his skis a lot and/or didn't have the funds for or own another pair. In any case, I think it was worth it for most people. The skis were not otherwise abused apart from the neglect of being on a car roof which rusted the edges. My shopmates were dismissive of Armadas, particularly regarding strength of construction. Even where the wppd of the core wasn't damaged, it seems smooshy; not solid and firm.

    I did put a shop sticker on the right ski and labeled it 'R'. It happens to the the right ski anyway as Armada labels the skis L and R underfoot.

    As a point of reference, since @Monique makes mention of it, here are my Ranger 98s.
     
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  7. Monique

    Monique bounceswoosh Skier

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    What? They do?

    I've been going by the graphics on mine, but I'll have to take a look. They're not directional, though, are they?
     
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  8. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    So maybe you are also a car wash!:P
     
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  9. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    I think for $80 the guy got a bargain. What type/brand of epoxy are you using?
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Yes, part of the product number. On these they ended in L or R. The topsheet graphics are not L or R, IIRC. The skis are not symmetric fore and aft and are symmetric L and R.
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    I was using Gorilla glue 1 hour epoxy. It comes in the dual syringe.

    I've used Loctite EA 608 at home on my Bent Chettlers. The protective topsheet was delaminating and the Loctite worked well on it. 2 separate tubes; I kind of prefer the dual syringe, but it wasn't an option with Loctite.
     
  12. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    That patch is freaking amazing. Maybe we should call you the Picasso of P-Tex??
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    LOL. I've done an actual patch before and they are really tough. Cutting the patch to the precise size, even with the pattern, is not easy. Given the vagaries of the core I am please with the way the P-Tex gun worked on this one.
     
  14. Eric267

    Eric267 Gettin after it Skier

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    Solid work!
    I've had that repair done twice. Only one was that bad though. The worst was on a ski that only had 5 days on it. Lasted at least 75 days before I passed them on to someone else and I think he still has them. One time my local shop charged me 40$ and the other time I was on a trip and it was around 80-90$

    From what ive witnessed with my friends that ride it holds better on skis than on a board. Something about the way a board flexes it likes to pop out.
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Makes sense, although skis do flex a lot. Plus on a snowboard, you don't have an 'outside' edge. Pressure on toe and heel edges would be similar. If you are skiing well, you'll have more pressure on the inside edge than the outside.
     
  16. fullStack

    fullStack Getting on the lift Skier

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    Nice work!

    I'm assuming the core is in bad enough shape it can only be "splinted"... Maybe a piece of titanal overlaying the core and edge? Or even some snowboard binding inserts (upside down) after drilling some shallow holes? I guess I would only try either as a last resort...
     
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  17. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Or CF tow.
     
  18. Thread Starter
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Could you elucidate?
     
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    Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

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    Thanks for that idea.

    The biggest problem is the amount of space you have to work with. In past personal repairs, I've just laid down epoxy without covering it with P-Tex. Eventually it cracks and falls out as it is so thick.
     
  20. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Stainless steel mesh. You could fold it over the sidewall area before the edge replacement goes on. McMaster must have a selection.
     
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