eBike Drones and eBikes!

[Philpug]

If they were geo-fenced, you'd ride onto his property and your bike would shut down until you left the fenced area. You'd be pedaling a 50 pound brick, but you'd still be able to go through.

That's my brainstorm for the day, tell me how I am wrong!

And the costs involved to geofence? Do you think Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Fazua and Shimano are going to put technology that into their bikes?

I do agree with your top speed. For Class 1 bikes, particularly mountain bikes, I see no reason for the top speed to be what it is, at 25Khm. I have not gone near that on anything other thas a fireroad. IMHO, 15Khm is fine for mountain biking, by doing this is can solve a couple of problems. First, weight, One of the major knocks against ebikes is the weight. A smaller motor and smaller battery will get the bikes down to the 40lb and under range. Speaking of range, a sub 40lb bike and lower max speed will require less assist allowing that smaller battery thus keeping the same range. Right now the average range is about 40 miles give or take and that is 40 miles of use, toss in downhills when you are not using assist....how many people are doing 50+ mile rides? Nearly none and those riders that are doing that type of ride is the lunatic fringe and not in this conversation at all.

 

[Rod9301]

And the costs involved to geofence? Do you think Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Fazua and Shimano are going to put technology that into their bikes?

I do agree with your top speed. For Class 1 bikes, particularly mountain bikes, I see no reason for the top speed to be what it is, at 25Khm. I have not gone near that on anything other thas a fireroad. IMHO, 15Khm is fine for mountain biking, by doing this is can solve a couple of problems. First, weight, One of the major knocks against ebikes is the weight. A smaller motor and smaller battery will get the bikes down to the 40lb and under range. Speaking of range, a sub 40lb bike and lower max speed will require less assist allowing that smaller battery thus keeping the same range. Right now the average range is about 40 miles give or take and that is 40 miles of use, toss in downhills when you are not using assist....how many people are doing 50+ mile rides? Nearly none and those riders that are doing that type of ride is the lunatic fringe and not in this conversation at all.

I don't think weight is an issue with ebikes.
I have a haibike nduro 180 mm travel, and it weighs 53 pounds
On the up, ridiculously easy even in technical terrain.

On the down, the weight really helps.

 

[newfydog]

I had a drone in my face fly fishing. They were filming Jerry Lopez or some cool guy surfing the whitewater park and decided to swing downstream to show me in the scene. That was ok , until the buzzing piece of crap came in for a close-up. I ran it off by casting towards it but It would have been easy to cast right over it and take it down. Would have been worth chewing up a good line.

 

[Ron]

Don't get me started with people who have their bluetooth or whatever speakers blasting out tunes from their backpack.

this deserves its own thread. I ABSOLUTELY ABHORE THIS. put on some F'ing headphones, no one whats to hear your music. Its not cool, not funny its just beyond obnoxious and rude. I wish angry bears and mtn lions were attracked to this.

 

[Ron]

Drones: for those who live in forest fire areas, drones are down right dangerous. people flying them to view and record fires are preventing helicopters and other aircraft from working the fires.

 

[scott43]

Seems there's nerves being scraped here!!!

 

[Ron]

Going Kavanaugh here!

 

[Erik Timmerman]

And the costs involved to geofence? Do you think Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Fazua and Shimano are going to put technology that into their bikes?

I do agree with your top speed. For Class 1 bikes, particularly mountain bikes, I see no reason for the top speed to be what it is, at 25Khm. I have not gone near that on anything other thas a fireroad. IMHO, 15Khm is fine for mountain biking, by doing this is can solve a couple of problems. First, weight, One of the major knocks against ebikes is the weight. A smaller motor and smaller battery will get the bikes down to the 40lb and under range. Speaking of range, a sub 40lb bike and lower max speed will require less assist allowing that smaller battery thus keeping the same range. Right now the average range is about 40 miles give or take and that is 40 miles of use, toss in downhills when you are not using assist....how many people are doing 50+ mile rides? Nearly none and those riders that are doing that type of ride is the lunatic fringe and not in this conversation at all.

I don't know, $10, 20, 50? How much could such a chip possibly cost? The bike already is full of computers. I'm sure nobody would add this and neuter their bike relative to everyone that doesn't install it, but if "Class 1" was re-written to include a geo-fence chip they would do it. The cost would be insignificant on a $4000-$10000 bike..

 

[Josh Matta]

Maybe drones have some utility, but I hate them because I like natural sounds in nature, and drones are intrusive. I have been in situations where I have hiked out to a beach (accessible only by foot or bike, and part of a National Recreation Area) and found people flying drones over the cove for fun. Another time I hiked to an overlook over Lake Tahoe, and a group was flying a drone there. For me, the noise pollution is a big downside.

So its annoys you we should ban it?

Just to be clear as well, if you build your own drone its not geofenced.....

This is what I am currently working towards. I am currently building the fixxed wing in front which is a 70 inch wing span plane capable of cruising flat at level at 120 mph and dives power off even faster.


it breaks all the laws, but it does nt endanger life or property so I am ok with it. Go head and tell me not to fly when I am 20 miles from you, at least it will be quiet when gliding.

 

[tball]

I don't know, $10, 20, 50? How much could such a chip possibly cost? The bike already is full of computers. I'm sure nobody would add this and neuter their bike relative to everyone that doesn't install it, but if "Class 1" was re-written to include a geo-fence chip they would do it. The cost would be insignificant on a $4000-$10000 bike..

I love the idea of geofencing ebikes for some applications.

Rather than change the "Class 1" ebike definition, maybe create a new "Class 0" ebike specification that requires geofencing? I think that's a nice solution to the problems created by the current "Class 1" bikes being too powerful for a number of applications.

Expanding on the OP a bit, I see geofencing solves a number of issues with ebikes in several potential ways:

• Banning motor assistance on trails where it is not legal while still allowing ebikes under human power.
• Limiting the assisted power output of ebikes to that of a typical human, allowing ebike access to some trails without changing their usage patterns and dynamics.
• Limiting the speed of ebikes to that defined by local ordinances. The 20 mph speed of current ebikes too fast for the way many ebikes are being used.

Those, and potentially other, geofencing tools would allow trail managers to define appropriate ebike usage on trails where motorized vehicles would be otherwise prohibited.

In addition to mountain biking, I think multi-use recreation paths is another application where a new class of ebikes is badly needed

I'm seeing a ton of ebikes on rec paths. I counted more than a dozen on a recent ride. These are paths shared with kids, dogs, strollers, joggers, and they often have tight turns and blind corners.

The 20 mph capability of current ebikes is too damn fast for many rec paths, particularly given the limited bike handling experience of most the ebike riders I've seen. I've seen a bunch of dangerous interactions between ebikes and other trail users. Sure, the same happens with some ass-hat bicyclists, but sustaining the speed of an ebilke without a motor requires years of training. That experience will give an experienced cyclist both an appreciation for how incredibly dangerous multi-use paths can be the bike handling expereience that most ebike riders will never have.

Adding a "Type 0" class of geofenced ebikes would allow maintaining the 20 mph speed limit of "Type 1" bikes where it makes sense and recognizing those higher speeds are extraordinarily useful for commuting. That way ebike riders on roads, bike lanes, and appropriate paths could still benefit from the mobility advantages of high powered "Type 1"ebikes.

 

[cantunamunch]

You all do realise you're setting up a second political battle as well?

The battle over e-bike access to trails is a sideshow, a red herring and a distraction. The real issue is over e-bike access to roads.

The moment e-bikes get geofenced you will see people wanting to ban them from specific, NIMBY roadways. At whatever speeds e-bikes are able to do then, and in the future.

 

[Josh Matta]

time to start building your own E bikes it sounds like....

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You all do realise you're setting up a second political battle as well?

The battle over e-bike access to trails is a sideshow, a red herring and a distraction. The real issue is over e-bike access to roads.

The moment e-bikes get geofenced you will see people wanting to ban them from specific, NIMBY roadways. At whatever speeds e-bikes are able to do then, and in the future.

I don't see how that's a battle at all since bikes should have (and as fas as I am aware, do have) access to all roads other than divided highways.

 

[cantunamunch]

I don't see how that's a battle at all since bikes should have (and as fas as I am aware, do have) access to all roads other than divided highways.

A purely theoretical right, untested in most locations (not enough unpowered cyclists willing to ride there), not true in all locations (Maryland, frex, legally obliges cyclists to use the shoulder) and just wait until e-bike users appear in quantities rivaling unpowered bikes. Oh, and expect e-bikes to be banned from 8mph sidewalks.

~ 25mph roads WILL get bombed by e-bikers, local residents WILL object, and will either force registration so tickets can be issued, or will force geofencing of power curves.

There are 16 cars and at least 5 ebikes (mostly Radminis, fwiw) on my block. Even at those ratios there will be conflict; when they become 1:1 it will be acute.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Oh, and expect e-bikes to be banned from 8mph sidewalks.

All bikes should be.

 

[François Pugh]

I get folks not wanting noisy two stroke bikes on their bike paths. I don't get why anybody cares if someone else is using a quiet electric motor instead of pedaling their bike.

 

[scott43]

Motorized vs non-motorized..simple as that..

 

[Rod9301]

I get folks not wanting noisy two stroke bikes on their bike paths. I don't get why anybody cares if someone else is using a quiet electric motor instead of pedaling their bike.

Exactly

 

[Philpug]

I get folks not wanting noisy two stroke bikes on their bike paths. I don't get why anybody cares if someone else is using a quiet electric motor instead of pedaling their bike.

Exactly

And they ARE pedaling the bike. These are no more dangerous than the pack of road bikers doing the same or higher speeds or on the other end, groups of three or four walking abreast blocking the trails so you cannot pass.

 

[scott43]

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml

So that's a 120kg (260lb) e-bike, plus you 80kg (176lb) going 32kmh (20mph) on a bike path. And what's with the stupidity of the pedals being required? Someone going to pedal a 120kg bike? And they ride on sidewalks. It's got a motor..get on the road..