Dragging the Inside Hand on Steeps

[GettingThere]

Good call. I think so. I think when I get a bit uncomfortable in the steeps I may be holding on to the plant for added security/balance and I think the solution is what 4ster says above about keeping my inner half ahead of the outer half. I imagine this probably feels like you're falling down the steep slope and your skis are catching you before you plummet to your demise. I have not achieved that sensation yet but I really want to.

^^ (bolded part) this might be it? Perhaps you are squaring up rather than maintaining upper-lower body separation? Do you feel like your turns start from your upper body?

 

[Josh Matta]

I find it funny to ski with out gloves. Even on the hottest of day I wear full finger gloves to MTB in, and skiing is never as hot as MTBing.

 

[François Pugh]

After pretty much destroying one (albeit cheep version bought in Costco) Head glove in a single fall skiing at modest speed, my opinion is confirmed, "If you crash without gloves, you're gonna have a bad time."
Also back on topic, to the OP, I'm guessing your hand is too far back, but you may be holding your hands out wide as a balance crutch. I've seen that too.

 

[agreen]

^^ (bolded part) this might be it? Perhaps you are squaring up rather than maintaining upper-lower body separation? Do you feel like your turns start from your upper body?

Thanks GT. I think on the steeps I get a bit defensive and my upper/lower become less separate. I was trying to imagine about what my thoughts are as I prepare to make turns on a very steep pitch but I think my brain shuts off. It'll be something for me to work on next season. To stay focused on the task at hand in those situations and not forget about the fundamentals.

I find it funny to ski with out gloves. Even on the hottest of day I wear full finger gloves to MTB in, and skiing is never as hot as MTBing.

Well I actually had an old pair of very thin liners on with some holes. It was my 1st time skiing temps that warm so I probably never really noticed the hand drag thing before.

After pretty much destroying one (albeit cheep version bought in Costco) Head glove in a single fall skiing at modest speed, my opinion is confirmed, "If you crash without gloves, you're gonna have a bad time."
Also back on topic, to the OP, I'm guessing your hand is too far back, but you may be holding your hands out wide as a balance crutch. I've seen that too.

Width of my hands could definitely be playing a part. Normally they are not crazy wide but on the steeps I could definitely be widening them for subconscious balance assistance. I think the hand too far back is the main culprit here which goes along with holding on to the plant too long as a crutch. Next season I will work on the "Up and Over" move as well as the stuff 4ster was mentioning about the inner half which, I think, goes along with better U/L separation and I have a feeling this will remedy the sitch. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[john petersen]

great discussion....subject matter is certainly upper level specific, though the mechanics hold true for every skier.

sometimes the downhill hand has a tendency to push forward as the uphill hand widens and comes back a bit....(agree with squaring to the skis as mentioned above), but wanted to add that losing counter (upper body) may come from the uphill hand/shoulder OR the downhill hand/shoulder, loss of functional tension in the core or a combination thereof.....wonder where yours originates from agreen....?

if a bit defensive, in that terrain...(understandable) squaring to the skis and loosing inside half alignment would certainly make sense......

kudos for tackling the steeps!


JP

 

[fullStack]

After I pole plant and am at the bottom portion of the turn I often notice my inside hand dragging on the snow. This became very apparent while not wearing gloves during my most recent Mammoth trip. I had some knuckle abrasions. This only occurs on the steeper slopes. I would estimate about 40*. Does this mean I am backseat? Does this mean I am not keeping my chest pointing down the hill enough? Or is it a typical occurrence on steeps? Thanks for any help!

Is that you in your avatar or do you usually finish a turn in that position? If so you might want to work on keeping your torso pointed down the fall line, which will naturally keep your hands lined up across the fall line instead of parallel with it.
How long are your poles? If they are a comfortable length on groomers/cruisers you might want to drop down 2cm for steeps.

Full disclosure: I usually "finish turns" like my avatar at least 3 times per season.

 

[agreen]

Is that you in your avatar or do you usually finish a turn in that position? If so you might want to work on keeping your torso pointed down the fall line, which will naturally keep your hands lined up across the fall line instead of parallel with it.
How long are your poles? If they are a comfortable length on groomers/cruisers you might want to drop down 2cm for steeps.

Full disclosure: I usually "finish turns" like my avatar at least 3 times per season.

Yeah that's me but I'm actually traveling toward the rock. It's kind of a double fall line thing going on. I'm sure I could use some better U/L separation regardless. Thanks!

 

[James]

I've worked to get rid of leaning on the inside pole. I try not to drag it now because dragging can become leaning. I use to intentionally do it in fog to feel the slope. Now I'll tap the pole instead to prevent leaning uphill/inside.

 

[fullStack]

I've worked to get rid of leaning on the inside pole. I try not to drag it now because dragging can become leaning. I use to intentionally do it in fog to feel the slope. Now I'll tap the pole instead to prevent leaning uphill/inside.

Same thing for me... I like a little "curb feeler" action every now and then, but I think while exploring a lot of new terrain this year, it became too much of a habit.

 

[agreen]

Is that you in your avatar or do you usually finish a turn in that position? If so you might want to work on keeping your torso pointed down the fall line, which will naturally keep your hands lined up across the fall line instead of parallel with it.
How long are your poles? If they are a comfortable length on groomers/cruisers you might want to drop down 2cm for steeps.

Full disclosure: I usually "finish turns" like my avatar at least 3 times per season.

I forgot to address the pole issue and was curious about this. I have adjustables and usually lengthen them for the steeps to about 125 with the thought of reaching further down the hill. Can you explain your theory of shortening them on the steeps please? I'm comfortable around 120-125 on most things except bumps where I shorten to 110. Thanks

 

[mdf]

Same thing for me... I like a little "curb feeler" action every now and then, but I think while exploring a lot of new terrain this year, it became too much of a habit.

When I get tired or gripped I sometimes turn that curb feeler into dragging that pole HARD, at least until I notice and tell myself to stop it.

 

[KingGrump]

I forgot to address the pole issue and was curious about this. I have adjustables and usually lengthen them for the steeps to about 125 with the thought of reaching further down the hill. Can you explain your theory of shortening them on the steeps please? I'm comfortable around 120-125 on most things except bumps where I shorten to 110. Thanks

One of the components of skiing the steeps well is commitment. A shorter pole will allow the upper body to move further across the skis before pole engagement. Allowing the body to move more inside the turn and down the fall line while the ski is still going out and around - the Infinity Move.

I still vividly remember that from a 1981 lesson at Alta. Probably one of my most memorable skiing tip ever. Still often remind myself to throw my poles down the hill whenever I'm on top of a steep section.

Don't know how tall you are. The 110 in the bumps sounds a bit short unless you are doing the zipper line.
I'm 5'6" short and I use 115 cm poles as my everyday pole for the steeps and bumps. Much easier on my elbows in the bumps than a 120.

 

[James]

I'm down to using 115cm/46in poles and I'm 5'11. I know someone who's well over 6' and is using 46 inch poles.

I don't get why you want a shorter pole for steeps where there's more distance to the ground below you.

 

[Rod9301]

Actually, when skiing steeps, you do need longer poles, so you can do the snow below you. A shorter pole will not be enough to reach below you.

That's why you see all the steep skiers use longer poles, and by steep I mean 45 degrees and steeper.

 

[agreen]

I'm 6'1" and "practicing" the zipperline on moderate pitched bumps so I find the shorties really help with that. In terms of steeps, I guess I could see how a bit shorter poles would force you to stay more forward in order to make contact but would like to hear more opinions as there seems to be differing views.

 

[agreen]

Actually, when skiing steeps, you do need longer poles, so you can do the snow below you. A shorter pole will not be enough to reach below you.

That's why you see all the steep skiers use longer poles, and by steep I mean 45 degrees and steeper.

Was posting while you posted and currently I'm in agreement with you. I feel more comfort with longer poles on the steeps.

 

[fullStack]

I forgot to address the pole issue and was curious about this. I have adjustables and usually lengthen them for the steeps to about 125 with the thought of reaching further down the hill. Can you explain your theory of shortening them on the steeps please? I'm comfortable around 120-125 on most things except bumps where I shorten to 110. Thanks

KingGrump nailed it above.

Also previously I should have said "shorten by 2 inches" instead of 2cm. Oops. (I blame the Loonie/Dollar exchange rate.) But since you have adjustable poles anyway, obvioulsy you can dial it in however you like...

Edit: LOL just saw your last post. If you're comfortable with longer, then by all means do that!

 

[James]

I think @KingGrump 's point is that using a shorter pole than comfortable on steeps helps you to commit going down hill. If one is doing a pedal turn on very steep terrain, short poles don't work well.

 

[KingGrump]

I'm 6'1" and "practicing" the zipperline on moderate pitched bumps so I find the shorties really help with that. In terms of steeps, I guess I could see how a bit shorter poles would force you to stay more forward in order to make contact but would like to hear more opinions as there seems to be differing views.

Agree a set of shorter poles does make zipper line moderate pitch bumps quite enjoyable. Love the bumps at MJ. Had the pleasure skiing with @Freaq in the spring of 2016. Loads of fun. OTOH, the bumps that form on the steeps are generally big and ugly. I remember Freaq asking me about that at Taos couple seasons back. I believe Freaq also talked about learning a different pole plant for the big ugly steep bumps during his ski week.

My comments about shorter poles are mostly directed toward in bound resort skiing. We are not out there to audition for the next Warren Miller flick. Just some simple slipping and sliding down the hill. IIRC, I may have done a hand full of hop/pedal turns in recent memory. Oh, say the last 8 years or so. Not one of my go to moves. Too physically demanding. I am way too old for that.

Speaking of soft skiing in the steep, I learn most of my steep and bump skiing at Taos. The altitude just won't allow me to get physical. We are taught to be soft and smooth at all time. Each turn has a beginning and a end. That affects the way we do our pole plant also. I don't reach down hill (much) with the pole. The pole plant is more immediately adjacent to the ski boot. The purpose of pole plant is to stabilize the upper body and the ski can go up and out. There is a bit of leaning down and in the upper body but that is it - forward down the hill in a sense. There is no big reach down the fall line.

I have posted this pic before of Andrew at the exit of Rock Chute on Upper Silver Fox at Snowbird. He is at the end of the second turn after clearing the choke. It's still pretty steep and bumpy there as most who skied with me at the gathering can attest to. Just cool, calm and ready to be collected - No drama, no big reach down hill. Just finish the turn smoothly, control the speed, stabilize the upper body with a pole plant and wait for the skis to go up and out.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I do that sometimes too in very steep sections when I'm trying to check my speed before a blind drop and/or rocks in the woods. Doesn't happen on open terrain unless I'm being very lazy in moguls but I don't do that anymore. Some sort of technique flaw which I blame on wimping out but not the worst self preservation response. I've actually punched a hole through crust with my fist.