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Don't Try This At Home, Horrible Things Actually Taught Somewhere-Rumor or Fact..

Tricia

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What is two tracking?
A two track is a road that is "driven in" instead of constructed.
We would frequently go "two tracking" for fun with our Jeep.
 

Monique

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A two track is a road that is "driven in" instead of constructed.
We would frequently go "two tracking" for fun with our Jeep.

Thanks! I thought that was probably it, but you never know!
 

T-Square

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Well Trish, that's a new definition for me, not much of a "jeeper." I immediately went to Adaptive skiing definitions. I think of the number of lines left on the snow.

Two Track = Skiing on two skis, with or without poles, maybe some Adaptive equipment on the skis. (Blind and Developmental Issues)
Three Track = Skiing on one ski using outriggers for stability. (Amputees and other issues.)
Four Track = Skiing on two skis using outriggers for stability. (CP, MS, and other issues.)

Then the sit down equipment.
Cartski = Sit down Two Track.
Monoski = Sit down Three Track.
Biski = Sit down Four Track.

Keep smiling.
 

Jeff N

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"You need to lean back in powder!"

*person getting this advice butt plants off the back of their skis on the second turn*

"No, No, you need to LEAN BACK in powder."

*person getting this advice now butt plants off the back of their skis on the first turn*
 

bawbawbel

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Mambo. Turning your skis with pure rotation added with a little bit of up unweighting. Trygve Berge sp? (ski school director of Breckenridge) taught me that one.
I teach that as soon as possible as an antidote to the constant fake news about the advantages of a perpetual "still upper body". It doesn't appear to produce horrible habits. It can even help beginners get past their racing snowplow, would you believe?
Have you retained it, just for fun?
 

bawbawbel

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boardbel6.gif
Even snowboarders love it....
 

john petersen

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just a few off the top: and this is just me personally.....Im sure there are more effective coaching cues out there. I think these inefficient coaching cues are due to a lack of understanding the concepts of blended skill skiing on the part of inexperienced instructors or well meaning friends and family......

"Push the tails of your skis out" - what it does: causes you to rotate the skis from the tips of the skis and generally causes a rear weight bias to the tails of the skis. its really hard to turn your skis when you are not standing over your feet!
Should be: "Guide your skis from the middle of your feet by turning both legs" "make boot angels" "make boot arcs in the snow"
Thats the difference between a snowplow and a wedge. Modern equipment can handle it, skis are designed to help.

"Turn your skis by tipping them up on edge" - what it does: maxes out your range of motion and does not allow for a good blend of skills. (we are talking learning center, here, not anything off a chairlift) This exercise is okay tactically or as an example of how modern equipment works, and yes, you need to know how to do this eventually....its just a matter of WHEN you introduce it.....Should be: "Guide your skis from under the middle of your feet by turning both legs. Tip your feet (shins, knees) up the hill only enough so you do not skid sideways" Its hard to work in coaching cues in this format, but there are certainly more than one as progress is made...

"Put all your weight on the outside ski"- what it does: causes an out of balance, overly angulated or overly inclinated body position. and by that I mean single posed position. range of motion is again maxed out. The implication is that one big movement is needed and then should be held throughout the turn.
Should be: "you should feel more and more weight going to the outside ski as you make your turn across the hill. This happens naturally" At this level, maintain a balanced stance from both side to side between the skis, and front to back over the feet.

"Always point your belly button down the hill"- again...implies a single posed position with part of the body. Skiing into and out of counter (counter rotated relationships between the upper and lower body) is a better way to think of it. As the legs turn under a stable upper body, a counter rotated relationship builds and this is very good for a great number of dynamics in high level skiing.
Should be: "turn your feet and legs while keeping your upper body oriented towards the (middle of the) new turn" This works for both long and short radius turns......Note: talk about where the legs start and the torso begins. (try this exercise: Stand up out of your office chair: put your hands on your hips. okay, now put your hands on your hips) ;)...cheeky, aint I.

Friends and Family!
Some that I have heard near the base lodge mostly.....

"Aww come on!...we'll help you get down"
"bawk,bawk, bawk, bawk, bawk"
"chickennnnnnnnnn"
"no, you put it on the other foot, wait...thats my ski!"

Learning center scary....(did I step in, or just watch the train wreck?...)

"Now go that way, honey and when I yell really loud, you just FALL DOWN"
"FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL"
"Okay, honey, just ski towards me, Ill catch you!"
"WAIT, WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.....FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL"
"Just ski behind me and turn when I do, but I cant see you so tell me if you get out of control"

something in the back of my mind is thinking about the mindset of the infinity move here. This stuff can be worked in to the very first lesson that is ever taught. Many instructors simply need to find out WHY they are teaching something and not just ask for good coaching cues or a bigger bag of tricks. Teaching about "going" as opposed to "slowing"......."managing" as opposed to "controlling"...."guiding" as opposed to "braking"....

this is a great topic. funny horror stories aside, its a good way to explore what doesnt work and maybe why!

JP

PS...I Love to teach railroad tracks!....and then side slips! and then blend em together....That is turning. If we skied the pure sidecut of the ski, we would need a really wide and long trail......but aint it fun!
 

bawbawbel

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This is a great topic. funny horror stories aside, its a good way to explore what doesnt work and maybe why!!
All good!
But my Infinity Move only came together after many years. To try to teach it early would be your ultimate challenge. Maybe biting off more than you can chew :)
I summarized it as "Having your feet always in the perfect position relative to your C of M throughout the entire turn and including speed, direction, edge and weighting."
Whew!
But to demonstrate and teach the difference between rotation and coiling is, to my surprise, possible with very raw beginners.
And great results, when they are no longer fearful of getting across the fall line.
What say you?
 

john petersen

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All good!
But to demonstrate and teach the difference between rotation and coiling is, to my surprise, possible with very raw beginners.
And great results, when they are no longer fearful of getting across the fall line.
What say you?

I have had success with this as well...it can be demonstrated and taught before skis are even put on! "Lift the boot, turn the leg" for rotation, and "standing here with poles in the snow on either side of your feet, 'mini step turn' the legs and feet but keep your upper body pointed at me"???

btw...I like your avatar, bawbawbel...classic!

JP
 

bawbawbel

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I have had success with this as well...it can be demonstrated and taught before skis are even put on! "Lift the boot, turn the leg" for rotation, and "standing here with poles in the snow on either side of your feet, 'mini step turn' the legs and feet but keep your upper body pointed at me"???

btw...I like your avatar, bawbawbel...classic!

JP
First, a confession- I love the single edge of snowboarding, so as a skier, skoarding (google!) comes naturally.
First thing on my first snowboard instructors course: "Go through our manual, and everywhere that it mentions 'weight forward', change it to 'even weighting' !
That far into the past.....
So I teach skiing stuff from this forbidden zone, nobody can rotate their hips without rotating their trunk, so I call it as I see it:

For beginners: (not yet linking turns, turning from a traverse):
Definition of Rotation: Turning your shoulders in the direction of the turn as you make it to help it around. Forbidden !
Definition of Coiling: Turning your shoulders in the direction of the turn you are about to make.
Harald Harb is big on this at present. He calls it "Counter Acting". You probably call it "Skiing Into Counter"
Definition of Uncoiling: Stopping the upper body rotation as we lean down the hill so the rotation is transferred to the skis.
Harald calls this "Holding Your Counteracting". I think he is looking for easier turns for his new knee? He still rocks!
Complicated for a newie? No, Little kids will flip their uphill hand forward before release if they are not warned and "corrected".
 
Last edited:

LiquidFeet

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I think you have the meaning of "Counter Acting" mixed up.
It means making sure the upper body faces the outside of the new turn, early, at the top of the turn, before the skis point down the hill ... exactly the opposite of how you are using that phrase in the previous post.

Or maybe I misunderstood you?
 

Wilhelmson

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I think I was better than the instructor because he said I ski great and just need to practice more.
 

Scotty I.

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I do remember many moons ago, Stein Erickson's advice while demonstrating how to ski moguls (not bumps):

"Plant zee pole at da crown of da mogul..."

I can't remember what else he said because I was stuck trying to figure out where the crown of the mogul was.
 

bawbawbel

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I think you have the meaning of "Counter Acting" mixed up.
It means making sure the upper body faces the outside of the new turn, early, at the top of the turn, before the skis point down the hill ... exactly the opposite of how you are using that phrase in the previous post.
Hi! I loved your Epic posts, gone...gone. "Skis effectively above my head " teleported me to memories of occasional perfect days.

Was it this part that you noticed:
"Definition of Coiling: Turning your shoulders in the direction of the turn you are about to make.
Harald Harb is big on this at present. He calls it "Counter Acting". You probably call it "Skiing Into Counter"

Thank you for calling me out on that. "Skiing into Counter" (rotating and squaring up through the arc) is an opposite and obsolete move..
I had made an incorrect comparison while looking for common ground..
Harb enhances his Counter Acting Anticipation by moving his inner (old turn) arm forward. (See clip of him skiing with MacLashin ).

I had hoped that Bad Bob would want to talk Mambo.
 

KingGrump

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I was stuck trying to figure out where the crown of the mogul was.

I can see why you were perplexed. Old school moguls usually wear top hats.

Mogul in top hats.jpg


The current trend in alternative-mogul skiing is plant ze pole on the cap.
Trump in Cap.jpeg
 

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