Do ski instructors have to have basic first aid and/or CPR certification?

[hbear]

Agree on the undertaking, but disagree that the company/hill must eat all the costs.
If certification is a condition of employment, then the instructor bears the burden of getting certified (no different than any other profession that requires similar). Just like background checks, these cost are incurred by the "employee" prior to commencing work.

That being said, certificate courses can be offered by the hill at a steeply reduced cost to new employees or they have the option to certify elsewhere at whatever cost that is. The hill can run the program as a cost retrieval (e.g. Cover the $5-10 card fee plus comp for instructor time (split among the 15 or so per class) would be much cheaper than if they were to get it outside).

Recerts can be run in a similar fashion, or just have each employee cover the nominal registration cost while the hill pays the educator their rate.

This model would be no different than what I've experienced in my previous life (where these things were requiments by our national body to remain certified which was a requiment for our profession).

Curious how patrol manages this.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Since the courses give people steps to do in an emergency, this does decrease the panic level. I think people will surprise you.

I wish they would. I've been at a couple fairly nasty industrial accidents and there were not any pleasant surprises.

 

[SkiNurse]

Curious how patrol manages this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but patrollers are medical professionals. The regular patrollers that work the hill are paramedics or EMTs at the least. Volunteer patrollers can be/are doctors, nurses, etc. All of these professions are mandated to have at least a current BLS (basic life support) if not ACLS (advanced cardiac life support) for their jobs (not their licensing). My employer pays for my ACLS (and other certifications) because it is required for my job. If I go outside my place of employment, then I am reimbursed. For the public, there are many resources to be BLS certified: American Red Cross, American Heart Association, EdCor (in Denver). A lot of community centers will offer group CPR training. The cost is usually $25-$100.

As a CCU/ICU nurse, I would prefer to have a non-medical person at least be able to start CPR. 13% chance of survival may not seem like a lot to people, but in my world....13% is a helluva lot better than 0%. And if, I was a ski instructor, and my employer did not require CPR training, I would do it for myself. You are responsible for an individual or group in not so great conditions and a lot of these people travel from lower elevations with medical conditions that they don't have to disclose.

Give them a chance...learn CPR and for that matter, some basic first aid. That's all that is needed to get "it" going before the calvary (patrol) shows up.

That is all.

 

[Jilly]

Smaller hills in Ontario use the Canadian Ski Patrol System. They are volunteers and usually just have advanced first aid. St Jean Ambulance is the usual source for this training. The local bump starts theirs in about 2 weeks. All current and new patrollers are required to attend the first aid classes. That doesn't mean that some of the patrollers aren't doing something else in real life. We had one that was a Para-medic in Toronto. But in order for him to treat as a Para-medic he had to sign out of the patrol. Which means to me that there is some sort of insurance issue.

Big resorts I would think, like SkiNurse have full time staff with active EMT's.

Like many others, someone in our place of business is required to know standard first aid. It was a one day course and almost a waste of time. I've been to 2 sessions before with full on traction splinting, doughnuts for puncture etc. But I did learn CPR the last time.

 

[hbear]

You are correct that patrol are medical professionals, all sorts with emergency training (think the minimum is EMR?). CPR is mandatory for them to do their job.
Curious if the company (hill) covers the recert cost or if it's borne by the patrol.

In Canada, my understanding is the hospital system covers the cost of maintaining CPR cert, and the nurses, etc. are not out of pocket for this (actually can perform during regular work hours so are technically paid to be there....at least up here in Canada). That being said, in my prior life in medical/exercise physiology CPR/First aid was a requirement for us to do our job as well however our employers did not eat the cost for us. We paid the true nominal cost, but were not compensated for our time. Thought process was it's a requirement to work, so the onus is on us to get it completed. I'd imagine the ski hill would take a similar stance. (right or wrong is debatable based on perspective).

Along those lines, finance professionals (e.g. CPA) have mandatory continuing education and annual registration requirements that are a requirement for their work. Most companies tend not to cover these costs and they are the responsibility of the employee (unless somebody is senior in the company and it's written into the employment agreement).

Similarly for the nurses I know up here I believe it's not uncommon to need to be a 0.6 or higher to have annual registration dues covered by the employer.

So there is an option to whether the ski hill wants to shoulder the entire cost, or if the cost of this additional requirement will be borne by the employees.

 

[pais alto]

Here's my input, it might be long, but I'm in that kind of mood.

Where I work, an all-paid patrol, the minimum for patrollers is EMT-B. In the US a lot of patrols - the National Ski Patrol affiliates - use Outdoor Emergency Care (OEC) as a standard. The patrol where I work isn't NSP affiliated so I don't know much about that, but my patrol is a state-certified EMS agency, which helps a lot with having and administering drugs. So I can't speak for any other patrols, just the one I work for. Patrols seem to go both ways. We operate under the medical protocols approved by our medical director, a physician, and the state EMT protocols.

We are responsible for the costs of obtaining our EMT certification and the biennial renewal costs, but the ski area sponsors and pays us for a 24 hour refresher/Continuing Education every year (and we get CEs for that, enough for the EMT-B annual requirements). BLS CPR is usually taught at work by one of our paramedics, but we still have to pay for the card. EMT-I and EMT-P have to get their additional CEs any way they can.

We have a (paid) safety team that doesn't have medical response responsibilities, but they're in the patrol department. Most patrollers start out on the safety team, undergoing evaluation and training. After completing the training and evaluation, they become full patrollers. Some folks just stay on safety team if they don't want to be EMTs. Safety team members assist patrollers on medical scenes and in the aid room, handle a lot of non-medical duties, and actually spend more time skiing around doing the host/ambassador thing than patrollers get to.

Let me know if I have to clarify any of the acronyms or expand on anything. All that said, the point above about medical qualifications being a condition of hire applies to patrollers, but I'd have to wonder if many instructors would go to the trouble.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Often we have the PA from the on-mountain ortho clinic join our posse. She is trying to move up to become a top tier skier and hanging with us pushes her toward that goal. Chances are the if I dislocate my shoulder for a fourth time she will be the one to put it back in anyways so it is good to keep her close at hand. Adding a medically trained friend is preferred over an instructor friend any day.

 

[TPJ]

I think it would be a great thing for all people working with the public to have CPR and a basic first aid course. The SS that I work for doesn't encourage these things and actually would prefer that any medical emergency be handled by the patrol for liability reasons. That being said there are plenty of instructors in my SS who work as guides or medical professionals and have training. I was a patroller in the NSP for over 10 years and still maintain my certifications. I have refreshed over the years mostly with my old patrol, but also with the local heli guides, and the BC guides and a few patrollers that work at my mountain. I am certified to the same standard as the patrol on my mountain. I would prefer to never touch a patient. I never really liked being a medic when I was patrolling. I am willing to help and will step in if needed, but I will also be happy to let someone else do it. That's one of the reasons I teach skiing now instead of patrolling. I have been first responder on a few accidents on the hill as an instructor. In one case a guy had a broken leg and I knew from my training that a bit of manual traction would have made him much more comfortable. I called patrol and managed the scene, but didn't touch him because it was a non life threatening situation. If someone was bleeding out or not breathing I would feel obligated to do what I could to help them and deal with any fall out later.

I also do wilderness trips and BC skiing for fun. As an OEC technician I am trained to be familiar with things like epi-pens and the reduction of shoulder dislocations even though my training doesn't authorize me to do these things. In my major first aid kit, I carry 2 eps-pens, prescription pain meds, and broad spectrum antibiotics. If I am a few days into a 10 day trip and someone is in anaphalatic shock, I'm sticking them with the pen. If there is a major injury or wound they are getting the drugs. I was skiing on Mt Ranier and one of our guys fell near the top of our run and dislocated his shoulder. It was much easier to put it back in so he could ski down rather having him evacuated through an outside agency. He had dislocated his shoulder many times and was experienced in having it put back which made it easier. I don't think he could have skied out without the reduction and it would have been a much bigger deal to call in help.

 

[Fuller]

About 90 days ago I was in full cardiac arrest after a workout at the local YMCA. I had the good fortune to be in the company of an off duty EMT who was there lifting weights. He did three chest compressions right away that got my heart going again. I don't think I was on the floor for more than about 2 minutes. The next morning I had two stents put in and a new lease on life. I'm back to 100% capacity now.

So yeah, I'm in favor of bystanders knowing CPR. If that had happened anywhere else I'd be dead.

 

[Tricia]

About 90 days ago I was in full cardiac arrest after a workout at the local YMCA. I had the good fortune to be in the company of an off duty EMT who was there lifting weights. He did three chest compressions right away that got my heart going again. I don't think I was on the floor for more than about 2 minutes. The next morning I had two stents put in and a new lease on life. I'm back to 100% capacity now.

So yeah, I'm in favor of bystanders knowing CPR. If that had happened anywhere else I'd be dead.

Wow, just wow. Glad you're here!

 

[SkiNurse]

About 90 days ago I was in full cardiac arrest after a workout at the local YMCA. I had the good fortune to be in the company of an off duty EMT who was there lifting weights. He did three chest compressions right away that got my heart going again. I don't think I was on the floor for more than about 2 minutes. The next morning I had two stents put in and a new lease on life. I'm back to 100% capacity now.

So yeah, I'm in favor of bystanders knowing CPR. If that had happened anywhere else I'd be dead.

It's a story I hear all too often and I'm glad that your's had a happy ending!

 

[Nobody]

I am an L1 inline skating instructor and an L1 skiing instructor.
While attending both clinics we students got basic first aid lessons.
No certification was issued, though.
While attending the L1 clinic in Austria this october I had plenty of time to observe that many instructors carried a first aid kit attached to their belts (later on I found out it is a basic, compulsory, equipment required by law for every instructor to carry while instructing there)
But the most important lessons I came away with were: "lesser of two bad" and "do no harm"...

 

[ScotsSkier]

I spent most of Friday/Saturday/Sunday in far west coaching clinics updating my quals including my first aid/ cpr certs in a session with Tahoe Truckee fire EMTs. A few changes in CPR protocols which streamline and simplify it. Well worth the time.

Also had an excellent session on boot fitting with the Master himself, Jim schaffner

 

[scott43]

I work in an office and I had all our staff do CPR and AED training..mostly for self-preservation reasons..

 

[Jilly]

And Ontario labour laws require it. Not sure the ratio of # trained per #'s of employees, but it's there. We need one and her qual's are out to date - me.

 

[jimtransition]

For ISIA qualification, most places require instructors to have a valid first aid certificate. Seems like a good idea to me, I also have to keep mine current for kitesurfing so every few years I do a recert.