Do ski instructors have to have basic first aid and/or CPR certification?
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Do ski instructors have to have basic first aid and/or CPR certification?
- Thread starter Karen_skier2.0
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- Nov 12, 2015
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No.
Hmm. Both are required even for the lowest L100 USSA qualification...
What's the relationship between USSA coaches and instructors?
Thread Starter
TS
But can patrollers make it there in 4 minutes for CPR? (I know this would be a rare occurrence, but a few things have happened to people I know in the last few weeks where immediate CPR made a difference.)
*shrug* what if the instructor needs it? All students should have basic first aid/CPR. 
Maybe, maybe not. So are you making the case that instructors should know CPR and have 1st Aid training? FWIW, a fair number of the incidents requiring CPR take place in ski area cafeterias and restaurants, but I'm pretty sure the workers there aren't required to have that training.
cantunamunch makes a good point.
Not for the CSIA either. But I am qualified because of work.
@Karen_skier2.0 , I was once in a lesson at Breck at the end of the season. We were on Vertigo when a student fell and dislocated her shoulder. She was in terrible pain. Ski patrol arrived just a few minutes later.
Later, the instructor told me that he had dislocated his own shoulder many times and could have easily popped the student's back in - but for liability reasons, he wasn't allowed to do so.
Now, who knows about the facts and whether it would be a good idea, but it suggests that at Breck, instructors are discouraged from providing medical assistance.
I'd hope CPR would be a different matter ... although in the last CPR course I took, we were told that if you're doing CPR on a person, there is only a tiny chance that they're going to come out of it alive ... In fact, wikipedia has an interesting chart. I'm not sure what all the distinctions are, but it says "Bystander Compression-only Resuscitation" survival rate is only 13%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation .. I guess what I'm saying is, if you go into cardiac arrest on the mountain - even if your instructor does know CPR, odds are it's over.
Later, the instructor told me that he had dislocated his own shoulder many times and could have easily popped the student's back in - but for liability reasons, he wasn't allowed to do so.
Now, who knows about the facts and whether it would be a good idea, but it suggests that at Breck, instructors are discouraged from providing medical assistance.
I'd hope CPR would be a different matter ... although in the last CPR course I took, we were told that if you're doing CPR on a person, there is only a tiny chance that they're going to come out of it alive ... In fact, wikipedia has an interesting chart. I'm not sure what all the distinctions are, but it says "Bystander Compression-only Resuscitation" survival rate is only 13%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation .. I guess what I'm saying is, if you go into cardiac arrest on the mountain - even if your instructor does know CPR, odds are it's over.
Even if not required it seems like a good idea. But then honestly I think everyone should be CPR certified as part of good citizenship. If someone is not breathing I don't care what my employer has to say about liability. Yeah 13% may be low but to the people who make up that 13% I imagine they appreciate the effort.
I agree with this, but will shamefully admit that its been several years since I've taken a refresher CPR.
At least in Wisconsin, employees are discouraged, even if they are OEC certified(NSP certification). Now I'm sure, if it was a life threatening situation, most people would probably give CPR.
CPR now days is pretty easy. People are taught that the compressions are the important part and not the breathing. So at least more can start doing that if a person doesn't have pulse.
It's amazes me the number of people that dislocate shoulders and put them back in themselves. Though I would never dream of doing it to someone else. Every shoulder is different and what if the dislocation is moved down? You are going to have one very hurting person if you try to put it in place. The ER has drugs for a reason.
CPR now days is pretty easy. People are taught that the compressions are the important part and not the breathing. So at least more can start doing that if a person doesn't have pulse.
It's amazes me the number of people that dislocate shoulders and put them back in themselves. Though I would never dream of doing it to someone else. Every shoulder is different and what if the dislocation is moved down? You are going to have one very hurting person if you try to put it in place. The ER has drugs for a reason.
@Monique popping a shoulder (or any joint) back is typically not allowed for any first responder (patrol and paramedics included) unless that person is a physician. Even then the standard is to x-Ray to rule out fracture or any complication before doing so. Some seasoned responders (haven't heard of it on the ski hill however) will still perform given the relatively low risk of something going wrong and the immediate sense of relief the patient will get from it; also easiest to perform right away before the muscle contracts and impedes a smooth reduction (it's why they use drugs in the hospital) Hopefully they did as much as they could to rule out complications as best as they can, however they certainly do run the liability risk if they are in error.
To add also thinking the ski gear makes it very difficult to get a good view on exactly what happened and the impact visually and by feel. Much easier when assessing a track athlete or swimmer.
Same thing goes for head/potential spinal injuries. My understanding is that patrol policy is to immobilize and sled them down to be put into an ambulance given they are not allowed to clear them; paramedics also don't clear spirals. Some professionals have the training, ability and insurance coverage to do so, however my understanding is Patrol isn't. Goes back (outside of liability coverage which is a primary driver) to always erring on the side of caution or the athlete. E.g. If there isn't any underlying issue what harm is really done by doing things conservatively and by the book? Inconvenience or the cost of medical is better than getting it wrong and doing some real damage.
As for CPR, unless the patient is a child or you have a defibrillator handy, the odds are awful at best for an adult. I forget the actual number but something like less than 20% survival rate if CPR is started within the first 60s......then falling off dramatically for any extra delay. To the point where cynically we asked what the point of even doing anything given the abysmal stats (no defibrillator within 4mins = almost certainty of death).....real world response is that it gave responders something to do and focus on (and you never know, miricals can happen).
To add also thinking the ski gear makes it very difficult to get a good view on exactly what happened and the impact visually and by feel. Much easier when assessing a track athlete or swimmer.
Same thing goes for head/potential spinal injuries. My understanding is that patrol policy is to immobilize and sled them down to be put into an ambulance given they are not allowed to clear them; paramedics also don't clear spirals. Some professionals have the training, ability and insurance coverage to do so, however my understanding is Patrol isn't. Goes back (outside of liability coverage which is a primary driver) to always erring on the side of caution or the athlete. E.g. If there isn't any underlying issue what harm is really done by doing things conservatively and by the book? Inconvenience or the cost of medical is better than getting it wrong and doing some real damage.
As for CPR, unless the patient is a child or you have a defibrillator handy, the odds are awful at best for an adult. I forget the actual number but something like less than 20% survival rate if CPR is started within the first 60s......then falling off dramatically for any extra delay. To the point where cynically we asked what the point of even doing anything given the abysmal stats (no defibrillator within 4mins = almost certainty of death).....real world response is that it gave responders something to do and focus on (and you never know, miricals can happen).
Race coaches teach/train folks to ski closer and closer to the edge of danger. Instructors teach folks to ski more and more difficult terrain safer and safer
Rumor has it we're (supervisors/management) will be doing CPR and avy 1.
hbear pretty much nailed it. Everyone should know CPR. But things like a dislocated shoulder aren't a life- threatening emergency, and all the paramedic protocols that I've seen do not allow reduction for the reasons hbear noted.
Thread Starter
TS
The miracle happened at a local high school recently. Member of the band (also of swim team) was running prior to practice and collapsed. Friend knew CPR, called 9-1-1, and ordered someone to get the AED from within the school. Due to this senior's preparation and fast thinking, the kid is going to be okay.
Besides allied health care and fitness professionals, I've seen many jobs with customer contact requiring CPR and First Aid.
FYI, @Monique first aid is primarily associated with the ABCs (sometimes D)--Airway, Breathing, and Circulation (and deadly bleeding or defibrillation.) It does not involve diagnosis and treatment of an injury.
Thread Starter
TS
CPR Facts and Stats
Why Learn CPR?
Cardiac arrest – an electrical malfunction in the heart that causes an irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) and disrupts the flow of blood to the brain, lungs and other organs – is a leading cause of death. Each year, more than 350,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests occur in the United States.
When a person has a cardiac arrest, survival depends on immediately getting CPR from someone nearby. Almost 90 percent of people who suffer out-of-hospital cardiac arrests die. CPR, especially if performed in the first few minutes of cardiac arrest, can double or triple a person’s chance of survival.
Be the Difference for Someone You Love
If you are called on to give CPR in an emergency, you will most likely be trying to save the life of someone you love: a child, a spouse, a parent or a friend. 70 percent of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests happen in homes. Unfortunately, only about 46% of people who experience an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest get the immediate help that they need before professional help arrives.
Music Can Help Save Lives
During CPR, you should push on the chest at a rate of 100 to 120 compressions per minute. The beat of “Stayin’ Alive” is a perfect match for this.
From the American Heart Association web site.
http://cpr.heart.org/AHAECC/CPRAndE...tsAndStats/UCM_475748_CPR-Facts-and-Stats.jsp
And some interesting articles:
Prepare for ski trip or risk heart attack, amateur skiers told
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/s...or-risk-heart-attack-amateur-skiers-told.html
http://www.webmd.com/heart/news/20100901/physically_unprepared_skiers_face_heart_risk#1
A study of tourists in the Austrian Alps showed that sudden cardiac deaths accounted for 40 per cent of all deaths on the slopes.
It was found that over half of the heart attacks occurred in the first two days and within two hours of hitting the slopes.
Lead author Dr Gert Klug said: “The fact that most of the infarcts (heart attacks) happened in the very early phase of the vacation hints at a causal relationship between lack of preparation for the intense regime of physical exertion and exposure to high altitudes and low ambient temperatures.
Maryland man survives ‘widow maker’ heart attack thanks to Vail man’s quick CPR
http://www.vaildaily.com/news/maryl...r-heart-attack-thanks-to-vail-mans-quick-cpr/
Luckily, a cardiologist was near when this man collapsed. The took off his helmet and put his head in the snow to decrease the need for oxygen and started CPR until the patrollers arrived.
Why Learn CPR?
Cardiac arrest – an electrical malfunction in the heart that causes an irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) and disrupts the flow of blood to the brain, lungs and other organs – is a leading cause of death. Each year, more than 350,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests occur in the United States.
When a person has a cardiac arrest, survival depends on immediately getting CPR from someone nearby. Almost 90 percent of people who suffer out-of-hospital cardiac arrests die. CPR, especially if performed in the first few minutes of cardiac arrest, can double or triple a person’s chance of survival.
Be the Difference for Someone You Love
If you are called on to give CPR in an emergency, you will most likely be trying to save the life of someone you love: a child, a spouse, a parent or a friend. 70 percent of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests happen in homes. Unfortunately, only about 46% of people who experience an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest get the immediate help that they need before professional help arrives.
Music Can Help Save Lives
During CPR, you should push on the chest at a rate of 100 to 120 compressions per minute. The beat of “Stayin’ Alive” is a perfect match for this.
From the American Heart Association web site.
http://cpr.heart.org/AHAECC/CPRAndE...tsAndStats/UCM_475748_CPR-Facts-and-Stats.jsp
And some interesting articles:
Prepare for ski trip or risk heart attack, amateur skiers told
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/s...or-risk-heart-attack-amateur-skiers-told.html
http://www.webmd.com/heart/news/20100901/physically_unprepared_skiers_face_heart_risk#1
A study of tourists in the Austrian Alps showed that sudden cardiac deaths accounted for 40 per cent of all deaths on the slopes.
It was found that over half of the heart attacks occurred in the first two days and within two hours of hitting the slopes.
Lead author Dr Gert Klug said: “The fact that most of the infarcts (heart attacks) happened in the very early phase of the vacation hints at a causal relationship between lack of preparation for the intense regime of physical exertion and exposure to high altitudes and low ambient temperatures.
Maryland man survives ‘widow maker’ heart attack thanks to Vail man’s quick CPR
http://www.vaildaily.com/news/maryl...r-heart-attack-thanks-to-vail-mans-quick-cpr/
Luckily, a cardiologist was near when this man collapsed. The took off his helmet and put his head in the snow to decrease the need for oxygen and started CPR until the patrollers arrived.
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