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Disturbing Prices

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scott43

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Computers are a good example..cost the same or less but are infinitely more powerful. Canyon is charging $1000CDN for an alu frame that probably costs $75 for them to buy. They're selling the complete bike for $300 more. I mean god love profit margins, but can the sport sustain that pricing? Maybe so..dunno...just seems..excessive..
 

jmeb

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I don't buy that an "entry-level" mountain bike is 2500-3000. In that range you're getting a serious bike with good components if you shop around a bit. For a trail bike you get a pike fork, decent shock, sram nx or gx 1x11 or 1x12, good hydro brakes, etc. These are bikes that seriously out run anything from 10 years ago.

Comparing a 10k mtb to a 10k motorcycle or car is silly. A 10k mtb is the absolute best bike you can buy. A 10k motorcyle or car is middle of the pack or even low end.

You can buy a servicable hard tail mtb for ~1K. For instance, for $1040 (with easy to get corporate discount) you can get a Reba, GX equipped bike under 28#. https://www.diamondback.com/overdrive-pro-27-19437
 
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scott43

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As far as top of the line bikes go, I like the fact that this is the one sport where you can have the exact same equipment that the top pros have. You can't have Lewis Hamilton's car, but you can have Chris Froome's, Greg Minnaar's or Julien Abasalon's. They cost a fortune, but at least you actually can get them.
I can buy all of Sydney Crosby's gear but don't make much difference.. Good for the fan boyz but not very practical..
 
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scott43

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Comparing a 10k mtb to a 10k motorcycle or car is silly. A 10k mtb is the absolute best bike you can buy. A 10k motorcyle or car is middle of the pack or even low end.

I think it's a case of what do you get for your money..
 

jmeb

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Computers are a good example..cost the same or less but are infinitely more powerful. Canyon is charging $1000CDN for an alu frame that probably costs $75 for them to buy. They're selling the complete bike for $300 more. I mean god love profit margins, but can the sport sustain that pricing? Maybe so..dunno...just seems..excessive..

I don't buy that you can manufacture a Canyon level frame for $75. Even Alu. Go watch pinkbike's youtube video on opening up a bike brand. The frame itself may have a base cost of $75. Then you add extra for paint, custom design, packaging and shipping, high level of QA, customs, warehousing, CS and warranty -- now you're looking at a sunk cost of 2-300$ USD per frame, more like $400CDN.
 
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I don't buy that you can manufacture a Canyon level frame for $75. Even Alu. Go watch pinkbike's youtube video on opening up a bike brand. The frame itself may have a base cost of $75. Then you add extra for paint, custom design, packaging and shipping, high level of QA, customs, warehousing, CS and warranty -- now you're looking at a sunk cost of 2-300$ USD per frame, more like $400CDN.
China bangs out millions of these things..I doubt it's that much. And mfg costs in the East are far less than here.
 

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When I opened my shop back in 95, our entry level bike was about $299. For that you got a high tensile steel frame, steel rims, galvanized spokes, no quick releases, sealed bearings or any type of suspension. For another $100 you got 3 cromo tubes with the balance of the frame being high tensile steel, alloy rims and qr's. Had to pay over $500 for full cromo, over $700 for aluminum and no suspension till over a grand.

Now for $449 you get a front suspension aluminum bike with alloy rims, stainless spokes and disc brakes. That was a $2000 bike back then.

Anyone who says an entry level bike is $2500+ is shopping in the wrong store.
Here is a good example...
Screen Shot 2018-06-06 at 8.58.24 AM.png
 

jmeb

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scott43

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It kinda reminds me of hockey skates..we had decent skates, Nike buys the company, off-shores the mfg to Thailand which halves (or less) the cost to mfg and then they double the price. I hate to use the word gouging..but.. I get that people can spend however they want, but if you have a mortgage and you spend $800 on hockey skates I suspect you have rocks in your head... :huh: Priorities I suppose.. Ok, I've done enough old-man carping. Carry on with the $24k bicycles!! :D
 

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jmeb

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It is interesting that people would think it would be less than that.

People like to believe the cost of a bike is the cost of manufacturing.

That may be true of BSOs. But it is not true of most higher end bikes. The costs of the bike is in manufacturing, design, qa/qc, warehousing, shipping, marketing, warranties and the like.
 

James

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I can buy all of Sydney Crosby's gear but don't make much difference.. Good for the fan boyz but not very practical..

Maybe become Lebron for less:
Still, $145?
IMG_5310.PNG

Or become Tom Brady?
About $100.
IMG_5308.JPG


I'd imagine one could get the exact golf clubs as Jordan Spieth but then you'd have to hit from where he hits.

How about tennis? Want to be Federer? You could probably buy the same racket. You'd be better off with half a sheet of plywood to return a 130 mph serve though.

F1 cars are available.
Here's a 2004 Honda. Only $80k. You're getting a lot more than a $6k mountain bike. You'll need an engine for maybe another $15-20k.

IMG_5312.PNG

https://www.mementoexclusives.com/f1-cars-for-sale/jenson-button-2004-bar-honda-f1-car/

Likely you're better off in a go cart. Ayrton Senna preferred racing them.
 

Eric267

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I don't buy that an "entry-level" mountain bike is 2500-3000. In that range you're getting a serious bike with good components if you shop around a bit. For a trail bike you get a pike fork, decent shock, sram nx or gx 1x11 or 1x12, good hydro brakes, etc. These are bikes that seriously out run anything from 10 years ago.

Comparing a 10k mtb to a 10k motorcycle or car is silly. A 10k mtb is the absolute best bike you can buy. A 10k motorcyle or car is middle of the pack or even low end.

You can buy a servicable hard tail mtb for ~1K. For instance, for $1040 (with easy to get corporate discount) you can get a Reba, GX equipped bike under 28#. https://www.diamondback.com/overdrive-pro-27-19437

Yeah, sorry, I'm not talking about a hard tail being an entry level. I have a decent Trek hard tail that was around $900 with the hookup. I'm talking about 130+ travel bikes. Companies like Santa Cruz, Kona, ibis, etc

Entry level to get on one of those bikes has gone way up. And like others have said mark ups on individual parts are so expensive that upgrading things like shocks and forks feels like your getting totally ripped off if you don't buy it as part of the "complete bike". Then you have to buy pedals too.
 

skibob

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Likely you're better off in a go cart. Ayrton Senna preferred racing them.
And he might still be alive had he stuck to Karts. In the offseason, apparently he, Emerson Fittipaldi, and Christian Fittipaldi raced Karts against each other for fun.
 

Monique

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The membership on this site (and particularly this thread) skews older - dare I say it, "Middle aged"? (I was recently informed that at 40, I am in fact middle aged, even if I still feel like a child.) And we're avid skiers. As such, I venture that most of us are in a relatively comfortable financial situation, and we also don't have the tolerance for discomfort that we had when we were younger. Our concept of "minimum acceptable quality" is different than that of people who have fewer resources and/or are younger and thus more resilient.

Last season, I had an eye opening experience - rode with some "friends of friends" who were getting into mountain biking. One bought a mountain bike online for $150. The other was borrowing what he described as a high end bike from a relative, and it was probably 15 years old. Most of us would have refused to ride these bikes. They were just fine.

@Eric267 I'm not sure why a 130+ travel bike is even vaguely necessary for a beginner. (Look at my assumption there - that only beginners buy cheap bikes.) But if you really want a nice bike for cheap, get on PinkBike. I recently sold two bikes - Ellsworths, ferchrissakes - one a 100mm excellent 26er that went to a literal child, the other a 9" travel downhill bike, rarely ridden. Both went for around $600 after I spent quite a while trying to gin up a buyer. They were far from new, but I can tell you that the difference between my 2011ish XC bike and my new SB5 is incremental. I was still actively riding that XC bike, and enjoying it, days I got the SB5. I also rode that XC bike on plenty of lift-serviced, somewhat rowdy trails before I got the DH rig (which was way overkill, but I got a great deal).
 
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scott43

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I mean I'm "racing" on a $1400 hardtail MTB. When I bought that bike in 2012 there was quite a selection in around that price..now I'm looking at 2 bikes in any mfg in that range. And it ain't the bike holding me back!!
 

Lauren

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They bang out alu frames by the million. They don't bang out alu frames to canyons design, manufacturing specs and quality control by the millions.

Here is a good video (and discussion) on it: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbike-went-to-taiwan-and-started-a-bike-company.html

Thanks for sharing this link, definitely puts things into perspective. I knew the margin on bikes wasn’t great for bike shops, but this video really puts into perspective why it’s not. They didn’t even get into shocks, components and other accessories.
 
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scott43

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Thanks for sharing this link, definitely puts things into perspective. I knew the margin on bikes wasn’t great for bike shops, but this video really puts into perspective why it’s not. They didn’t even get into shocks, components and other accessories.
Margin on bikes is 40% for shops..at least it used to be..factor in the obligatory 10% off..and it's even less. And you have to buy the bikes and store them...and if you guess wrong you eat them. Shops have a tough business..not sure mfg's do..or the people who are buying spec bikes and reselling them. Especially when you're Trek and you're buying 100,000 at a time...
 

Eric267

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The membership on this site (and particularly this thread) skews older - dare I say it, "Middle aged"? (I was recently informed that at 40, I am in fact middle aged, even if I still feel like a child.) And we're avid skiers. As such, I venture that most of us are in a relatively comfortable financial situation, and we also don't have the tolerance for discomfort that we had when we were younger. Our concept of "minimum acceptable quality" is different than that of people who have fewer resources and/or are younger and thus more resilient.

Last season, I had an eye opening experience - rode with some "friends of friends" who were getting into mountain biking. One bought a mountain bike online for $150. The other was borrowing what he described as a high end bike from a relative, and it was probably 15 years old. Most of us would have refused to ride these bikes. They were just fine.

@Eric267 I'm not sure why a 130+ travel bike is even vaguely necessary for a beginner. (Look at my assumption there - that only beginners buy cheap bikes.) But if you really want a nice bike for cheap, get on PinkBike. I recently sold two bikes - Ellsworths, ferchrissakes - one a 100mm excellent 26er that went to a literal child, the other a 9" travel downhill bike, rarely ridden. Both went for around $600 after I spent quite a while trying to gin up a buyer. They were far from new, but I can tell you that the difference between my 2011ish XC bike and my new SB5 is incremental. I was still actively riding that XC bike, and enjoying it, days I got the SB5. I also rode that XC bike on plenty of lift-serviced, somewhat rowdy trails before I got the DH rig (which was way overkill, but I got a great deal).


Entry level into and beginner are different IMO. Walk into any bike shop around here and say your a beginner and they will put you on a hard tail or full suspension xc bike for $750-1500. If you get seriously into it you are going to want to get onto a decent (by industry standards) full suspension enduro style bike they are going to start at $2500 and up. I'm not defending it. It just seems the way of the mountain bike world these days
 
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scott43

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Entry level into and beginner are different IMO. Walk into any bike shop around here and say your a beginner and they will put you on a hard tail or full suspension xc bike for $750-1500. If you get seriously into it you are going to want to get onto a decent (by industry standards) full suspension enduro style bike they are going to start at $2500 and up. I'm not defending it. It just seems the way of the mountain bike world these days
That's kinda my thinking as well..not really judging..just..that's the way it's gone.
 

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