Demo skis purchase need help

[Ken_R]

So usually the goos demo skis base can only see light scratches?

 

[cantunamunch]

So usually the goos demo skis base can only see light scratches?

Not even that. The scratches are in the topsheet only

 

[Mike Thomas]

In about 2 weeks brand new skis will be on sale for within $100 to $200 the price of a 'well loved' demo ski. Buying the used demo is almost never a better use of resources, the exception being a narrow carving ski or powder ski that never left the demo center. Demo skis get ridden hard and put away wet... then tuned aggressively to bring them back... then even more so to make them look nice for sale. I work in a demo center, I'd never buy a demo ski, not for what a new ski can be had for.

I try to help people at this time of year all the time:
"Can I buy the demo?"
"I can sell you a brand new pair with a real binding for only $100 more than the demo will sell for, when we sell it, a month from now... it will be used during that whole time."
"I'll wait. I want a demo ski."
"you are not a smart person."
"I know, but I can save money if I buy a demo."

 

[Monique]

In about 2 weeks brand new skis will be on sale for within $100 to $200 the price of a 'well loved' demo ski. Buying the used demo is almost never a better use of resources, the exception being a narrow carving ski or powder ski that never left the demo center. Demo skis get ridden hard and put away wet... then tuned aggressively to bring them back... then even more so to make them look nice for sale. I work in a demo center, I'd never buy a demo ski, not for what a new ski can be had for.

I try to help people at this time of year all the time:
"Can I buy the demo?"
"I can sell you a brand new pair with a real binding for only $100 more than the demo will sell for, when we sell it, a month from now... it will be used during that whole time."
"I'll wait. I want a demo ski."
"you are not a smart person."
"I know, but I can save money if I buy a demo."

To me, that depends on if it's a true demo vs. "higher end of rental." I've bought skis in great shape from Powder7.

 

[Mike Thomas]

See exception above^^^

 

[Mike Thomas]

Also, there is no 'demo v, high end rental', just ask any ski rep with a demo fleet how they get cared for by skiers.

 

[Monique]

Also, there is no 'demo v, high end rental', just ask any ski rep with a demo fleet how they get cared for by skiers.

Oh, yeah, people suck. It's weird. I take better care of someone else's equipment than my own. Apparently that's not universal.

On the flip side, the Powder7 demo skis for sale are pretty comparable in price to new old stock. So it's not a huge savings. The demo bindings are nice for future resale value.

 

[baymax]

In about 2 weeks brand new skis will be on sale for within $100 to $200 the price of a 'well loved' demo ski. Buying the used demo is almost never a better use of resources, the exception being a narrow carving ski or powder ski that never left the demo center. Demo skis get ridden hard and put away wet... then tuned aggressively to bring them back... then even more so to make them look nice for sale. I work in a demo center, I'd never buy a demo ski, not for what a new ski can be had for.

I try to help people at this time of year all the time:
"Can I buy the demo?"
"I can sell you a brand new pair with a real binding for only $100 more than the demo will sell for, when we sell it, a month from now... it will be used during that whole time."
"I'll wait. I want a demo ski."
"you are not a smart person."
"I know, but I can save money if I buy a demo."

Thanks. I think I have misunderstanding of rental skis and demo skis as well. But I will stay away from demo now.

 

[Read Blinn]

+1 on Powder 7 skis, and some others as well. The MX 83s I bought from Powder 7 were pristine, apart from a few top sheet scratches — lots of edge, perfect bases. I bought a pair of MX 88s from an Ebay reseller (of all things): really cheap (b/c discontinued model), bases and edges excellent (and plentiful), some top sheet scratches, and they were the best packed-for-shipping skis I've ever seen (except maybe in pictures from a satisfied Scotskier customer). I also bought (for my wife) a pair of LX84s — they were a bit more beat-up looking, but bases were decent (some light scratching) and the edges were good.

Maybe I've had anomalous experiences, or maybe it was the brand I was buying, but I've had nothing but good experiences buying demos.

 

[Monique]

Maybe I've had anomalous experiences, or maybe it was the brand I was buying, but I've had nothing but good experiences buying demos.

As long as they post clear pictures of the bases, you should be able to know what you're getting online. (Hint: bases should not look like those in first post!)

 

[Read Blinn]

As long as they post clear pictures of the bases, you should be able to know what you're getting online. (Hint: bases should not look like those in first post!)

That, too.

 

[LegacyGT]

I also got a pair of demo skis from Powder 7. I had been shopping around and they had a low price during a Christmas Day sale. Obviously the best case is to find a pair that's been on the hill a couple days in good conditions. The skis I got were rated by Powder 7 as a 7.0 per the scale described in the video above by Ken_R. Compared to the "best case" the skis I got were pretty beat up...some light scuffs and scratches on the bases and some significant scratches and cuts to the topsheet. But the Powder 7 rating very fairly represented the skis and the information and service they provide is honest and top notch. My only critique might be that they said the skis had been "recently tuned" which is pretty meaningless. It would be nice if they automatically gave a fresh tune to skis they sell. I tend to keep skis for a long time and any new skis I got would have looked like these demos within about a season or two. And you get the pros (adjustable) and cons (weight and maybe a little slop) of having demo bindings.

 

[Read Blinn]

And you get the pros (adjustable) and cons (weight and maybe a little slop) of having demo bindings.

That depends on the demo binding. They do vary. Tyrolia Attack 13 demos are great bindings with little downside (except perhaps stand height).

 

[jo3st3]

powder 7 is a great source for demo skis.

 

[snoempath]

Let me take a bit of a contrarian view.
I'll preface this to say, that I have no junked out cars or furniture, couches or the like in my front yard.

But I'm perfectly happy to take pretty worked-over demo stuff. As long as it doesn't have structural damage [edge compression, broken or blown edges, mashed sidewalls, or other damage that penetrates the core, etc] and it's cheap - I'm good with it.

I've invested in most of the tools I'd need for these kinds of jobs. PTex work is really pretty easy with a fairly cheap iron and sticks of ptex. I have base flattening and structuring tools too.

So, if you're willing to learn - get your hands dirty, risk screwing up a ski - then buying a ski like in the parent post can work just fine. I'm pretty handy - and do/have done a fair bit of pretty advanced wood-working, have epoxies, metal scrapers and experience. That all inspires confidence. Having done some more elaborate wood-working projects, I'm reasonably certain where my skills and deficits are too.

I might have $150-200 in tools, but they have earned their keep, and now I have those tools to handle anything I want to do myself - even if I never buy another "used" ski that needs repair again..

---
A few years ago I picked up a Mantra that had a couple of edge-compressions and related damage. I paid a pretty minimal sum for them, and could have simply stripped the bindings and sold them on and lost nothing. So, I felt reasonable [low risk] in doing my own epoxy work, straightening the edges, and getting all the compression out that I could.

I eventually sold them to a friend - disclosing their history, after I skied them myself for a few days. I found a few hidden rock-sharks, myself, on some early season skiing - which I also repaired. I made money on them - though not a lot if you consider what my time is worth. But it was good experience, fairly fun - and I have a less anxious time around rocks and "early season" conditions. [All season conditions in the PNW this year.]

Interestingly enough - I suspect this ski was a defect from the factory. My guess is that it was glue starved. [They didn't put enough epoxy in the ski when it was pressed.] The result was that water was able to partially penetrate the ski in a few places. I think that corroded / rusted the edges, internally. This finally resulted in pull-out in those locations when the ski was semi-abused. [Accidents do happen - so abuse is probably too strong a word.] The result of the impact was more dramatic because of the water penetration. [This is, obviously, my wild guess - it could be completely wrong - but that's what makes sense to me.] The reason I mention this - if you decide to take on a project - remember it may be a "project" from causes that are more systemic than you might consider. It might not just be that someone blew the edges - the edges might have blown because there are bigger problems with the ski.

And one of the other up-sides to being willing to play ski-fix-it is; I pick up a fair number of skis - I'll pass them on to friends at minimal mark-up. But I also get a chance to ski them and get wider exposure to what's available. And I make money doing it.

That's a lot better and cheaper than a "demo" day. I can keep a ski a day, a week, a year or several years - with the assurance I am pretty unlikely to lose any money on the deal. And I have a lot of fun sharing skis with friends and others I meet - they like it a lot too. If you're in my neck of the woods, [Mt Hood Meadows] I'm probably glad to let you try whatever I've got that I'm not skiing myself, that day.

Good times for everyone.

 

[mdf]

Also, there is no 'demo v, high end rental', just ask any ski rep with a demo fleet how they get cared for by skiers.

I think the key is to buy a demo that wasn't very popular.
My current skis were demos from Powder 7 and were in excellent condition when I got them. Looked like they may not have gone out at all.

 

[Monique]

But I'm perfectly happy to take pretty worked-over demo stuff. As long as it doesn't have structural damage [edge compression, broken or blown edges, mashed sidewalls, or other damage that penetrates the core, etc] and it's cheap - I'm good with it.

I've invested in most of the tools I'd need for these kinds of jobs. PTex work is really pretty easy with a fairly cheap iron and sticks of ptex. I have base flattening and structuring tools too.

So, if you're willing to learn - get your hands dirty, risk screwing up a ski - then buying a ski like in the parent post can work just fine. I'm pretty handy - and do/have done a fair bit of pretty advanced wood-working, have epoxies, metal scrapers and experience. That all inspires confidence. Having done some more elaborate wood-working projects, I'm reasonably certain where my skills and deficits are too.

I might have $150-200 in tools, but they have earned their keep, and now I have those tools to handle anything I want to do myself - even if I never buy another "used" ski that needs repair again..

Well, you've invested in tools, you've invested the time so that you now know what you're doing, and you seem to enjoy it. I don't know what your hourly rate is, but my suspicion is that you "spent" more on repaired skis than you would have finding something in better shape. Which is fine! For me, I'm way better off spending a little money so I can spend more time doing other things.

 

[cantunamunch]

Well, you've invested in tools, you've invested the time so that you now know what you're doing, and you seem to enjoy it. I don't know what your hourly rate is, but my suspicion is that you "spent" more on repaired skis than you would have finding something in better shape. Which is fine! For me, I'm way better off spending a little money so I can spend more time doing other things.

and, of course, there's really no way to restore torsional stiffness or camber to a well-used ski, not without structural addition that renders the ROI questionable.

(example of structural addition)

 

[snoempath]

and, of course, there's really no way to restore torsional stiffness or camber to a well-used ski

I've heard this explanation somewhat regularly - do we have some scientifically documented examples?

I'm skeptical, especially on skis with reasonable wood cores, and especially with metal. I did a lot of nordic skiing on plain old wood skis, with tar and wax for bases. While one can't exactly extrapolate anything from that - I never recalled us having to replace skis that were worn out and floppy in camber or torsion. Personally, I've seen no basis other than what I'd consider to be a few edge cases from, say, a foam core ski. IMO, the "theory" has grown and been extrapolated across all skis, where there's no real basis in some objective measurement / reality.

But if you're aware of something I've missed, I'd love to see it. It would be educating in any case.

 

[DanoT]

I've heard this explanation somewhat regularly - do we have some scientifically documented examples?

I'm skeptical, especially on skis with reasonable wood cores, and especially with metal. I did a lot of nordic skiing on plain old wood skis, with tar and wax for bases. While one can't exactly extrapolate anything from that - I never recalled us having to replace skis that were worn out and floppy in camber or torsion. Personally, I've seen no basis other than what I'd consider to be a few edge cases from, say, a foam core ski. IMO, the "theory" has grown and been extrapolated across all skis, where there's no real basis in some objective measurement / reality.

But if you're aware of something I've missed, I'd love to see it. It would be educating in any case.

I am of the opinion that a ski doesn't ski the same after 20 days as it does the first day and after 200 days the tracking or lack of it should be self evident. If it is not, then it is likely because the skier is making adjustments in skiing style to compensate. The best way to know for sure is to go from the mega day ski to a brand new model of the same ski back to back in the same conditions.

The fibres is wood and fibreglass do break down with use.